Alpha/Omega

new interview here:

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=82793


and i am very excited about the prospects of this book. mike oeming is a very talented writer who has a passion for his characters (beta ray bill included) and has done his homework on oldschool alpha flight (i'm just assuming this of course, but from everything i have read it apears that way) so he will handle this team much better than the last version.

plus, and i'd really hate to say this, but i think a lineup like this will stand more of a chance to succeed then the originals. the only people that will buy a book based on just the originals would be us hardcore af fans. it may not survive. plus this lineup seems like it has some potential for some very uniuqe dynamics. i always felt that a guardian (wether mac or heather) is the symbol of af, just like cap in the avengers. now don't get me wrong, i really want to see sasquatch, puck and some more of the originals, but the way they have been handled lately (northstar/aurora villians.......originals in space, not in space, dead/not dead) it would take 5 arcs of 6 issues each just to explain what had happened, and that would lose potential readers. we need this book to gather interest mainstream, or else us hardcore fans won't be enough to keep this title around.

i never bought the original series because it was a book based in canada, heck i barely even noticed or cared it was, i bought it because i loved the characters and it had incredible stories.


sorry for the rant.

just a couple of quick negatives i do have to say.

from what i'm reading on other boards it seems people either love kollins art or will stay as far away from this book because of it.

plus, although the characters seem very uniuqe, it seems like we are getting the "second tier" characters from the originals. instead of thor we are getting beta ray bill and instead of capt. america we are getting usagent and instead of spiderwoman.....er....we are getting the other spiderwoman.


i'm sure mike oeming will write them as being extremely interesting, but it just seems kinda second class to me.

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Originally Posted by varo

plus, although the characters seem very uniuqe, it seems like we are getting the "second tier" characters from the originals. instead of thor we are getting beta ray bill and instead of capt. america we are getting usagent and instead of spiderwoman.....er....we are getting the other spiderwoman.

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We don't know if it is US Agent yet, but BRB is actually stronger than Thor.

Of all originals, I can't believe that they are using Talisman - quite unexpected and a nice surprise. I really liked her, in the Byrne days especially.
Regardless of the fact that this book may be light on the original characters, I'm willing to buy a book that has just one of them in it, if he/she is written well. Maybe there IS a plan to bring back more of them eventually, but why let out the surprise now? It might even hinder the development of the book if non-Alpha readers were to hear that the first arc or arcs was only a "gimmick" to get the book going until more Alphans could return...
I think we need to just sit back, enjoy it when it comes out and be patient. No sense jumping to conclusions based on some carefully worded and controlled news. Given that we have a creative team that are all old-school fans, they deserve a chance to prove themselves.

i know, after reading that again, i'm not coming off the way i meant it. i'm actually gonna start doing some research on both brb and that version of spiderwoman.


and bendis managed to take 2 "b" level characters and make them interesting, so i guess all it takes is a writer capable of writing good stories.

Del...I will probably give this book a chance(the first couple of issues, at least), but to me, this is an awful line-up.

I can't stand U.S. Agent(if it is indeed, him), I don't give a care about any Thor character(let alone Beta Ray Bill), I don't care about Spider-Woman II(Julia Carpenter...again, if it's her)....I really don't want to see Mailman Michael in the Guardian suit (if it's him).

I really like Talisman, but I doubt I'll buy a book solely for her. This just feels like another kick in the groin to Alpha Flight fans.

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"i'd really hate to say this, but i think a lineup like this will stand more of a chance to succeed then the originals." Varo

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Doubtful...Not to mention, the originals haven't been even given a chance(not since Vol. 1, which ran for TEN years).

Dana

where did this mailman michael rumor come from?

So far it's speculation by posters on the Newsarama website, that he joins OF to make amends for what he did to AF.

Dana

There I added what we know thus far about Omega Flight in the entry

http://alphanex.alphaflight.net/inde...ega_Flight_III

We don't "know" the roster yet...We know Oeming is possibly writing Beta Ray Bill and that he appears to be one of the members, It appears to be Talisman (with what also appears to be Shaman's bag)...

We also don't know that the new Canadian-flag wearer is going to be called Guardian...Vindicator is more fitting if it's Michael Pointer...He has a lot to Vindicate (but we don't know if it's him yet, either). Do we know for sure the Spider-lady is Arachne (Julia Carpenter)?

Dana

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Originally Posted by Oeming

I'll be by all the time doing more research, and I'll ask questions from time to time.

The one thing I'll ask of the board (because you ARE hard core fans) is to allow the first 3 issues or so time to sink in, establish its own thing. I typically layout questions for the reader to ask, I never lay it all out at once or spoon feed the reader in any way. im all about listening to the readers, YOU are who these books are for after all.

Anwyhoo, Im way excited, Scott Kollins and the editor are HUGE old school fans, so you guys have a voice on the book for sure!

M!

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It's great that there'll be some intelligent writing on the book. The one thing I hate about alot of comics/movies/books/TV shows is how the writers believe they have to either spoon feed their audience or hit them over the head to get their point across. Thanks for promising us a voice on the book, I'm sure you'll get a tonne of comments and ideas tossed your way. Good luck to you and the rest of the creative team.

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Originally Posted by cmdrkoenig67

Do we know for sure the Spider-lady is Arachne (Julia Carpenter)?

Dana

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In the latest Miss Marvel, Arachne/Carpenter would seem to have turned against S.H.I.E.L.D to protect The Shroud, so it would seem she has reaon to leg it to Canada. Plus the costume she has on is very similar to the character in the Omega image.

Beta Ray Bill? Arachne? USAgent? Could I possibly care any less about these characters? It's doubtful. Talisman's the only thing I'm excited about, and I am kinda pumped about a new Guardian, that could be cool.

But, yeah, not too excited about this at all.

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Originally Posted by cmdrkoenig67

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=82746

Hmph...Nice comment from Bendis (insert extreme sarcasm)...Bendis replied, "So, America gets like 5,000 superheroes. We don't get anything. All we had was Alpha Flight. They sucked, but they were ours."

Maybe they sucked in his opinion, but not for the several hundreds/thousands of fans who bought Vol. 1, 2 and 3. What a jerk.


Dana

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Dont take what/how Brian said what he said harshly, Brian will say anything for to make a situation funnier, especially at a panel, and thats all it was.

And hey, everyone keep posting what you think/feel about these characters as you figure out who they are. Often I'll read little comments and they will spark big ideas, thats why I pay attention to the hard core fans, I cant promise to make them happy, but I promise to pay attention:)

Also keep in mind we are still in the early stages of story and character, so nothing is written in stone YET:)

speaking of figuring characters out.


are we close?

if so, it will help us give our input a litle better. :D

anyways, i really think guardian not being mac is a fact. just assuming of course, but only 1 canadian being on the team pretty much rules it out (talisman will be the one).

just my speculation.

Thank you Mr. Oeming, but I find his comment not funny...in the least. Marvel has done it's best over the last few years to insult Canadians...Why?

I'm not Canadian, but this sort of crap pisses me off. Take the recent solicitation for X-Men #190 as an example (near the back of the issue)...

"X-Men 190: Northstar and Aurora are French Canadian. Not surprisingly, they're also insane! In this issue, they try to kill Sabretooth!"

Wow!...I also recall that several issue-solicitations for Alpha Flight Vol. 3 were making fun of Canada and Canadians.

I too wish you luck in this endeavor, Mr. Oeming...You'll need it.

Dana

EDITED to add: It's ludicrous to have a Canadian-based team of five or more characters with only one Canadian. Most U.S.A-based teams have certainly more than one Citizen of the U.S. in them...Why should a Canadian team be any different?

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Originally Posted by Oeming

And hey, everyone keep posting what you think/feel about these characters as you figure out who they are. Often I'll read little comments and they will spark big ideas, thats why I pay attention to the hard core fans, I cant promise to make them happy, but I promise to pay attention:)

Also keep in mind we are still in the early stages of story and character, so nothing is written in stone YET:)

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Please deal with Mac and Heather's baby girl. We've heard nothing about her since her birth, and if her parents are dead someone has to look after her. Speaking of parents, maybe Talisman would be wanting to avenge her dad by "dealing with" Michael the postman. Just a thought. :wink:

EDIT: And if you do decide to bring in some more Canadian heroes how about bringing Madison Jefferies back as Box?

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Originally Posted by cmdrkoenig67

So far it's speculation by posters on the Newsarama website, that he joins OF to make amends for what he did to AF.

Dana

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I find the Newsarama talk of Postman Mike pretty funny... the guy was thrown into the Sun, after all, and Mr. Oeming said quite clearly that one of AF survived NA #16 to join Omega Flight, and that one old member is on the team too, hence Talisman I guess. :D

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Originally Posted by Mokole

I find the Newsarama talk of Postman Mike pretty funny... the guy was thrown into the Sun, after all, and Mr. Oeming said quite clearly that one of AF survived NA #16 to join Omega Flight, and that one old member is on the team too, hence Talisman I guess. :D

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Mikey didn't get tossed into the sun, it was the various mutant powers that did. Mike the postman was taken into SHIELD custody and retained some of the powers he had.

If there are two AF members in OF then why did Mr O. say he "only saw one" Canadian in the promo picture? :?

I think that could be to do with the comment that one from the supposed dead in NA #16 would join the team. So that could mean those five plus one of the recently deceased.

That would explain it.

Thanks Mr. Oeming. See's like the promo image doesn't have to be 'the' team. Or all of them. But there's no way Postman Mike is Guradian, no way at all. Mike would have to ignore everything Bendis did to make that true.

I'm excited about the new team and book, especially with no quotes that it'll be silly like v3.

We are back in the Alpha Flight Universe :D

I have to say I'm very happy with Alpha Flight's return. On teh characters topic I really hope Talisman is included in the line-up. It's one of those interesting characters that are sent to the recycling bin due to writer's laziness or lack of knowledge to handle him/her properly. Besides being a cool powerful and dinamic charater, it makes a lot of sense to have her on board seeking revenge for her father or simply by trying to follow her father's mantle. Someone corrects me if I'm wrong but isn't she destined to be a great magician at the level of Dr.Strange or even more powerful?

On Guradian: I hope it's Mac too. If Heather and the rest of the taem is really dead (which I wouldn't be content about) and he is the only survivor I cannot see him forgetting about them and leaving the superhero suit.

On Spider-Woman II (Julia Carpenter): I have always liked her since I saw her in the Iron Man cartoon. Even if she seems a Spider-Man rip-off I read Force Works and her mini-series and she is a cool character with an interesting background.Last thing I knew from her was that she was more interested in being a mother for her daughter than a superhero so we'll see how does she get involved with this new Omega Flight.

On Beta Ray Bill: I know nothing about this characters so I can't say much.

On US Agent: As others have mentioned previously I can't see such a right wing charcter opposing to the Registration Act and have no interest in him. If it's him and not Cap on the promo image I hope he is the one to die in issue 12 :)

To conclude, I have faith in this new book but please, don't forget about us, old school AF fans. That we know of, classic characters such as Snowbird, Northstar, Aurora, Madison Jeffries and Diamond Lil are alive.I'm sure they'll have something to say about their former teammates deaths and the new Omega Flight, won't they?

I have a feelin, or maybe it's wishful thinking, that more than Guardian survived. I think they will find ways to keep older members out of Omega Flight like Heather staying with the baby and such. Again, maybe it's just wishful thinking.

I wondered why we'd had over 130 posts in less than 24 hrs :lol: :lol:

8)

I think it's a nice idea, get alpha connections but it's not Alpha. Actually, except for Byrne run the rest where pretty much forgetful. I did not read a single ting outside this forum, so I don't know much, but it's interesting to get new readers.

As for second rate characters...well, I don't want to read about Thor, Wolverine, Captain America and all the big names, they already got a book for that. I want something new and interesting with respect to what was previously done. Not the same old thing over and over and over again.

I don't know much about all the supposed characters, but I like better Beta Ray Bill than Thor and if it's US Agent, it would be nice to see that right wing guy confronted to east canadian culture, which is more liberal or even worst get to read a cereal box on the french side not realising he can turn it around and read it in english (I don't know him, I just imagine him been a little bit slow in the head).

And if any Quebecer characters like let say Northstar and Aurora should be deal with on that book, If the creative team need help with the french or expressions or accents or history, I would be very happy to help :P

I don't think the guy with the shield is John Walker/USAgent. Why? you ask, simple Walker would be the first guy for registration of heroes and to go after heroes who refuse to register! Thats how blind he is, all for glory, none for honor.

My guess is that it's Steve Rogers/Captain America, of course he can't go by C.A. anymore so my thought is he returns to his "NOMAD" identity without the old costume.

That's my thought. :-#

MM

To me, I think it is USAgent. Millar did say Cap was not going to Canada and I read, somewhere, that he's leading New Avengers. Of course, people will then say, "It's not Steve Rogers in the Captain America costume" and round and round it goes. :roll:

I also read that USAgent was supposed to leave the U.S. but not quit the biz. I'm too lazy to go looking for that all again, I'm tired. Very late night ad all the Omega excitement...

Of course that doesn't make it John Walker for certain, but if a patriot like Rogers can be anti-SRA, then so can Walker.

As to who Guardian is, the idea that it's the mailman is laughable. Think of it from Oeming's perspective: go in and pitch Omega Flight, and say that since Bendis killed them off the mailman feels guilty, eventually, and makes amends by asking Department H for the Guardian suit, to which they heartily agree. Does this sound, in any way, like a realistic thing Oeming would say??

Is the mailman living by a code of scrub baseball?

I'm not treating this like an English major or poetry reviewer. Sure, I don't really know who's on the team but Omega Flight will, if the preview image is accurate, be made up of Talisman, Mac Hudson Guardian, USAgent, Arachne, and Beta Ray Bill. If I said how confident I was about each one I'd say:
100% about Guardian
99% about Talisman
80% about Arachne
75% about USAgent
60% about Beta Ray Bill (Mainly because the character looks bigger and more armoured than Bill).

In a week I could be proven very wrong. :shock:

Sure, I'd prefer Box and Nemesis and Witchfire in the team but I'm not writing it. I'm not worried, either, Oeming will do right by the characters and style. :wink:

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Originally Posted by syvalois

I don't know much about all the supposed characters, but I like better Beta Ray Bill than Thor and if it's US Agent, it would be nice to see that right wing guy confronted to east canadian culture, which is more liberal or even worst get to read a cereal box on the french side not realising he can turn it around and read it in english (I don't know him, I just imagine him been a little bit slow in the head).P

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I knew of a student from Illinois who went to McGill and after 4 years he and his back-at-home buddies still considered Canada communist :lol:

I agree Sylvie, I'd rather see characters like Bill and Arachne than Thor and Scarlet Witch, not only are they second-tier right now who can grow but it leaves room for other characters to get the attention, Guardian and Talisman :wink:

I am an Alpha Flight fan since the Byrne run and I've really enjoyed this site to get my Alpha fix. I've been following the OF discussions on this and several other boards and figured I'd put my 2 cents in.

1. While I do hope it's Mac in the Guardian suit, I would say it's probably someone new. The Canadian government likely has the plans and tech to rebuild the suit or they reclaimed the one he was wearing after he died.

2.I think the guess about Spider woman is pretty well 100%, plus it makes sense. She's on the run and Canada would be a good place to be.

3. I sure hope that isn't Cap. in the picture. The whole "I'm tired of being Captain America so I'll take another name and do something else" bit is getting a bit tired. I mean how many times has he done that? After 2 or 3 times I think the US governement and citizens would get tired of him and just say piss on him. He gets upset and throws in the towel too often, I don't think Canada would want him. I hope it's more likely a new character modeled after Capt. America... maybe Capt. Canada or something. After all there is a Capt. Britain and in the Ultimates book isn't there a whole bunch of Capt. "insert your country here" characters? Maybe they borrowed a page from them.

4. As for Beta Ray Bill joining, all I can say is why? He's not even from earth, if I remember correctly, and don't most of his adventures take place in outerspace? Also in the picture I don't remember seeing a Thor like hammer. Could it be a new Thor like character? Maybe a Box Thor as previously suggested? I'm not a huge Thor fan and I've always thought the whole multiple Thors was kind of stupid. I sure hope it's not him.

5. I agree with everyone so far about Talisman. I think that is pretty obvious.

6. One thing that is bothering me about the picture is the fact it pretty much looks like a B-list Avengers. There is the Capt. America knock off, the Thor knock off, the Spiderman knock off, plus Talisman and Guardian could be seen as Scarlet Witch and Ironman knock off but the other three are very obvious. That's kind of insulting. The only way they feel that they can get people to pick up the book is to make it look like an Avengers book? Why not just put X-23 and a female Thing in the group. How about a female Human Torch and Vengence so they can have a knock off of Ghost Rider and cash in on the upcoming movie? Let's put Shang Chi in a Daredevil-like costume and call him the Chinese Devil while we're at it.

Don't get me wrong I have been waiting for a good Alpha Flight book for a very long time, I just don't want them to take one of my all time favorite books and make it the Avengers Canada. I quit reading X-men because they started putting out 50 X-books per month and 49 of them suck, including X-men England. Canada may be part of North America and share a lot with the US, but they are a different country and deserve their own heroes. Plus us AF fans deserve better than a simple "what if the Avengers lived in Canada" book.

I understand from business perspective that Marvel has to make the book sell so that the die hard fans will be happy too, but they don't have to put so many 2nd rate Avenger wanna bes on the team. I could live with one just to drive the sales, but couldn't they do that just as well on the merit of the creative team? Every character/book can be great if the right people get a hold of if. After all even the X-men got canceled once and now they are one of Marvel's premiere franchises.

I'm sorry if I went on a rant for a minute and I hope that my assumptions about the book are completely off, it just pains me to see them possibly soil the memory of one of my favorite books. I can deal with the old team dying, I can deal with a new team stepping up to bat, I just don't like the idea of the new team being composed of knock offs of American heroes.

I will give the book a go and I am eagerly awaiting it's release so that my concerns can be proven unfounded. I have been reading comics for a long time and unfortunately the crap they have done in the name of sales(clone saga, death of superman, inferno, the continued revival of Phoenix, Batman breaking his back, Hal Jordan going evil then he died then he got better then he was good again, Green Arrow coming back from the dead...ad nausium) has made me just a little cynical about there intentions. I truly have a great respect for most of the creative minds that work in the field including those working on the upcoming OF book, unfortunately I have seen more of what they and/or the suits want to put on the shelves, than I have seen books the fans actually want to read.

I wonder if Ben knew about this. Even he did he couldnt let it out. If Mac and Liz are on the team that would be great. Julia Carpentor is cool and Beta Ray Bill is a little odd choice but I can take it since we are getting something back.

So, are the New Avengers Collective team dead-officially now? Geez, I hope not.

Good to have you aboard, Capt.D. I figure the speculation everyone brings about who is who is great. After all, I argued against Zuzha Yu being Puck but I was way wrong, so I can still be way wrong. It'll clearly be a good book for AF fans, since it'll be a direction that the original version took, and it'll include AF characters along the way, maybe even in the team. Who knows, maybe only one of those 5 isn't an old AFer somehow. It's fun to guess, keeps the brain happy. :)

Hope Ben gets back from his honeymoon soon, he'll go bonkers if he goes online here and sees 1,280 new posts in only 4 days :wink:

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Originally Posted by mos_def

I wonder if Ben knew about this. Even he did he couldnt let it out. If Mac and Liz are on the team that would be great. Julia Carpentor is cool and Beta Ray Bill is a little odd choice but I can take it since we are getting something back.

So, are the New Avengers Collective team dead-officially now? Geez, I hope not.

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Ah, I'm betting nothing is ever official at marvel until it appears in print in a book, which it hasn't. New Warrior fans know their guys/gals are dead because it's been mentioned in She-Hulk, Civil War, Wolverine... But AF? Not a word. :oops:

OMG actually still has some characters to choose from if they do make Vindicator, Puck, Sasquatch, Snowbird, Shaman,Zuzha Yu, Major Mapleleaf dead. It would suck to leave the first three out cuz of their HUGE fan base but still, he would have

Diamond Lil
Madison Jeffries
Northstar
Aurora
Yukon Jack
Manbot
Wildchild
and others though the previous have some problems of their own right now

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Originally Posted by mos_def

OMG actually still has some characters to choose from if they do make Vindicator, Puck, Sasquatch, Snowbird, Shaman,Zuzha Yu, Major Mapleleaf dead. It would suck to leave the first three out cuz of their HUGE fan base but still, he would have

Diamond Lil
Madison Jeffries
Northstar
Aurora
Yukon Jack
Manbot
Wildchild
and others though the previous have some problems of their own right now

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There's probably a couple dozen they could use and don't forget Snowbird. There's many characters in the Alpha Universe that could be written in, but would they be as big attention grabbers as Beta Ray or Cap/USAgent? Probably not. Which is the point of the series, to stay afloat. I'd be happy if there's a team up every now and then with Persuasion, Feedback or Windshear etc. We shall see what happens.

Edit, hell who says there can't be an Alpha Flight working in the background as it has for so many years. This is an Omega book, doesn't mean Alpha can't still run in the background, or as unlikely as it may be, get another Alpha series down the road.

Ben is back from his honeymoon, but is busy moving into his new apartment. He did say that he will have some time on his hands soon and can get back into it. The only thing he's scared of is all the updates he has to do :-)

One theory I heard suggested maybe the Captian America doppelganger might be Taskmaster.

Adding to the mix, just re-read this at the Joe Friday Thread

"NRAMA: Keeping with the Pittsburgh con, Mike Oeming teased a few things, that he has a “something huge” spinning out of Civil War this September (that is not Thor). We haven’t double-checked to see if Oeming is originally from Canada, but one title certainly springs to mind…

JQ: I believe Oeming is from the barren, icy wilderness of New Jersey.

NRAMA: He also mentioned Beta Ray Bill showing up in a regular series, and reiterated that Ares will be joining a super-team. Anything you can add to any of this?

JQ: Nope, so far it sounds like a plan, but it’s way too early to talk about. But thinking about this, if you’re hinting at Oeming writing Alpha Flight, are Beta Ray Bill and Ares Canadian?"

Just makes it more likely that Beta Ray Bill is in Omega Flight. Could Ares be in the Thor Bot? Could he be not in the image? In the USAgent uniform?

No way Ares is the other three, or Beta Ray either.

I'm thinking Ares may join an Avengers title, especially if Hercules is dead.

Still pumped about this super-hero action series. Fighting mutants, teams, mystics, extra-dimensional threats, more paranormals, more teams, AIM,.... :wink:

A couple of things I think:

1. While it has been said over and over that Alpha Flight is dead, that doesn't mean the characters are dead, it could just be the name is dead.

2. Who says that the supposed Talisman in the Omega Flight picture is Shaman's daughter? Whoever has the talisman is Talisman so it could be someone else. Scarlet Witch perhaps?

3. Oeming says that he sees only one Canadian in the Omega Flight picture and I would think it rather silly to have a non-Canadian in the Guardian costume. That would be like having an American in the Captain Britain costume or a Canadian as Captain America.

Further tidbits here.

NRAMA: Fair enough… So starting from the right, Joe Quesada told us straight away just a few weeks ago in New Joe Fridays that you’d be writing Beta Ray Bill again in a title (as opposed to a Beta Ray Bill), so that one is a lock and we’re not letting you off the hook.

What can you tell readers about his inclusion on the team? Was he someone you enjoyed writing so much you just wanted to include him, or does he have some sort of other logical connection to this team?

MO: Okay, I'll give this one up because I love you and Beta Ray Bill. Plus, 90% of the posts I read already guessed it and the other were thinking it was something like Thunderstrike or a robot Thor, no one fell for it as being Thor himself, however he is returning- so yes, that clearly is Beta Ray Bill!