Perhaps this is when it is revealed to the Canadian public and then all hell breaks loose in Marvel continuity. Unless Marvel Canadians are different from you fine folks here, eh :wink: ?Quote:
Originally Posted by mreeez
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Perhaps this is when it is revealed to the Canadian public and then all hell breaks loose in Marvel continuity. Unless Marvel Canadians are different from you fine folks here, eh :wink: ?Quote:
Originally Posted by mreeez
If anything look at the postive side, with Mike being in the suit it definetly has people talking.
Just to change velocities :roll:
I asked Marvel what was the status of Alpha Flight, who died in New Avengers, what's the status of Lobdell Flight, and got no answer for a long time, but now:
"The people who died in New Avengers #16, by the hand of the Collective, were the Alpha Flight members who returned from seeing the Plodex plus the two new recruits."
And as to the time displaced members and where they are:
Omega Flight editor Andy Schmidt says:
"To my knowledge, we've never said one way or the other, so, technically, they still exist. At least, until someone says they don't."
The second quote was passed on to me by a buddy who has two sons who got subscriptions to OF, no wonder he got an answer faster! :wink:
But an answer is an answer.
GREAT news!Quote:
And as to the time displaced members and where they are:
Omega Flight editor Andy Schmidt says:
"To my knowledge, we've never said one way or the other, so, technically, they still exist. At least, until someone says they don't."
So, the possibility that some of our heroes could reappear in OF pages, or other comics at some point in time, is in existence.
Yahoo!!!
Hope still lives. It is a great great day for Alpha Flight.
I dunno, man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flightpath07
The temporal copies...
*sigh*
It's kinda like non-alcoholic beer.
Sorry if this is a stupid question (I still have not read vol 3) but there are Alpha members lost in time? So this means that, conceivably; someone can pull a Captain Mar-Vel and pull them into the current time stream?
Temporal Copies: http://alphanex.alphaflight.net/inde...oral_Copies%29Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Toxie
Magical Coins: http://alphanex.alphaflight.net/inde..._Magical_Coins
Wow, what a freakin' mess, thanks for the info Your Majesty. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by King Mungi
The only thing even slightly compelling about this fact would be the look on Mailman Mike's face when he ran into them.
\:D/ :twisted: :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Barnacle13
Never once did I say I was offended.Quote:
Originally Posted by SephirothsKiller
Nice use of sarcasm there too., really adds to the maturity of your point. As does the double standards...
Yet you get defensive about a fictional American character wearing a Canadian flag and chastise me for not feeling the empathy of Canada and thus hating the book, before it's even out?Quote:
Really though, I wouldn't get all defensive if someone wrote "Canadians like hockey" even though there are exceptions to this. I don't expect someone to write academically: "There is widespread sentiment among the Canadian population that Hockey is an enjoyable sport, as evidenced by its place as one of Canada's two national sports. It must be noted however that not all Canadians like Hockey, some people find its violence distasteful, while others dislike it for other reasons. The exact number of Canadians professing to like hockey is X%. (Source: X)." People make informed generalizations, that isn't anything new, and that is what I did.
Many sources state Al Gore created the interweb... That's the thing with the interweb...Quote:
Oh, and many sources still refer to Ireland as a member of the British Isles. http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/Regions/ We know better but it's just easier. Less letters.
You wanted me to imagine how A Scotsman would feel, implying that every single Scotsman feels the same as you expect every single Canadian to feel hatred for the fact that an American is wearing the mapleleafed suit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Corvus
We've already had Ben, who is a patriotic Canadian, stating that he's not disgusted with the character wearing the costume so that's already shown the diversity there is and that I shouldn't boycott the book because of it.
I don't believe I have, merely given you an opposing opinion to your own which you apparantly cannot handle....Quote:
Thanks for the strawman though. Any other intellectual fallacies you'd like to toss my way while you're at it?
I understand your explanation I just cannot feel it, if you get me?Quote:
Originally Posted by Legerd
I commend your rational debate of the issue and have no problems at all with what you wrote.
I post this not as a condemnation of the OF series (which I haven't read yet) nor as a condemnation of Mailman Mike being on the team.
As always, I will decide what I think of the series WHEN (not IF) I buy it. If it's only 5 issues, there's not much gonna make me not buy all of them.
This post is, however, a condemnation of one aspect of all that; as Corvus and others have said.
I should be glad because it could be worse? That's not how I think. Sorry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
I don't like the idea of people threatening me with something terrible, then giving me something slightly less terrible, and expecting me to be happy about it.
"I'm gonna cut your arm off!!!" NOOOOOOOOOO!!!! "Okay, I'll just cut your hand off. You should be so grateful!"
(Just my way of showing how people could abuse such a concept, not saying Omega is bad, certainly not comparing it to loss of limb.)
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Originally Posted by Ben
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Originally Posted by varo
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Originally Posted by Oeming
(Apologies for extreme quotation here...)Quote:
Originally Posted by SmurfInABlender
These points have two things in common:
1) They are all very good points.
2) Not one of them excuses draping the Canadian flag around a non-Canadian.
If Mailman Mike is on the team, at least have the decency to use a different costume.
It's like having a German as Captain America--or one of the 9/11 hijackers. (But I like Oeming's suggestion of making Lee Harvey Oswald president. :))
I wouldn't like an Australian in the Maple Leaf suit, either.
As for who? Why not take an officer from the Canadian milit'ry? It'd make total sense to the characters, even if none of the readers have heard of him / her before. (And therefore, we're letting sales dictate story. Never a good idea.)
Come to think of it, a non-Canadian 'Captain Canada' defending Canada next to a USAian 'Captain America'... What're you trying to say here?
Come to think of it, the guy who slaughtered AF on a team named after the one that killed the original Mac... What're you trying to say here?
I have my doubts about a USAian team being able to portray Canada positively.
We (Australians... me, anyways) love you! "Americans go south of the border to buy cheap food and clothing in some backwards country, while Canadians go south of the border to buy cheap food and clothing in some backwards country."Quote:
Originally Posted by Legerd
But if I buy it in large quantities, Marvel will think it doesn't NEED changes!Quote:
Originally Posted by nygfan
Promising change is how they got me to buy so many issues of v2. :evil:
Are you forgetting v3?Quote:
Originally Posted by varo
If so, explain how!
Ironically, by making the 'one Canadian' most people saw--the person in the Maple Leaf--not Canadian.Quote:
Originally Posted by mreeez
Their what now? I saw no attempt at anything remotely Byrnese in either book.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil
I'm beginning to agree with you there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil
However, if I agreed with you completely, I wouldn't pick it up. Other than being 'Alpha Flight' and the art, nothing about OF particularly interests me. This isn't a judgement of the quality of the book. It a judgement of the concept. If OF had nothing to do with AF, it'd barely touch my personal radar.
Not that long ago, in America, I read a textbook which listed Australia's national religion as beer. I laughed.Quote:
Originally Posted by SephirothsKiller
I don't drink.
:lol: :lol: :lol: Speaking of sarcasm and double standards... :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil
- Le Messor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJuNgBkloFE
I never once implied that you should attempt to speak for everything single Scot. Go re-read my post. I specifically said "a Scot, and a nationalist one, might feel" Note the might, not will. Note the use of the nationalist adjective.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil
a Scot=/= Every Scot. I'm well aware that our kilt wearing friends are not a borg like gestalt entity. It seems most of your hand-waving dismissal of my opinion comes down to a failure of reading comprehension. It doesn't bother me that people disagree with me. Being disagreed with on the basis of things I never said is annoying though.
I'm not sure what the source of the comment about boycotting the book is. I've only ever said that the decision to put Pointer in the Guardian suit kills most of my interest in the series. Whether other people reconsider whether or not they'll support the series is up to them, and I've never argued that people shouldn't support the series just because of what I consider to be a significant flaw.
I would recommend picking up The Initiative to most of the folks who are thinking about grabbing Omega Flight. I'd also say that Choosing Sides would be a good purchase too. They're not necessary, but do a nice job of setting things up for the mini.
I'm picking up Civil War: The Initiative, but I have no intention of grabbimg the Choosing Sides book...I can't stand the USAgent...He's one of the reasons I don't like this OF line-up (Michael Pointer is now another). There are a lot of strikes against this Omega Flight (IMO) and it seems they just keep adding more and more.
Dana :roll:
I've never actively disliked USAgent, but it's been a long time since I read anything about him other than Choosing Sides. I know he used to be a member of Force Works with War Machine, but my reading experience with him was back in the early 90s when he was introduced as a replacement when Steve Rogers became The Captain. I still remember the cool cover on Captain America #350 with the two of them duking it out.
I even made a USAgent custom figure for my upcoming Omega Flight team (I'm only two members short of it being complete)...but I wish I'd used the red/black/red/black color scheme on his shield that they put on the Silvestri piece...but what can ya do about that eh? :P
I'm looking forward to see what they do with Talisman. I'm getting more and more of a feeling that people will like this book, regardless of whether they were fans of old-skool AF or not. I can't say exactly WHY that is, but I'm hopeful that we might yet see an ongoing series here...
I've just read the issue.
A lot of the time, the world outside the USA likes to call Americans 'arrogant'. I think of it more as national solipsism than arrogance--the philosophy that nobody but you exists.
I think this issue has really played it up. Putting an Alaskan in a suit was part of it; but not all.
I felt it strongest when Carol Danvers and Tony Stark were having their conversation; how many times did she say "Every superhero in the world" was at his disposal? (Sorry, only the ones in the USA; but you're solipsistic, aren't you, Carol? Tony? There is no rest of the world.)
Then, when he calls up the images of potential Avengers, they include Black Panther, Storm, and Namor--all of them foreigners, all of them dignitaries-- and he has the presumption to assume he can just call them up and order them into the Avengers.
He's not only discounting the rest of the world, and the fact that it might not have registration, he's also taking for granted that the RULERS of foreign nations will come at his beck and call, like trained dogs. Or citizens of his own country.
(SHIELD being UN is irrelevant; he's using American laws for this.)
This is the problem, this is the solipsism, the arrogance, the presumption, that makes the idea of a USAian in the Canadian flag leave such a bad taste for us damn far'ners. Speaking only for those who are left with a bad taste, of course.
- Le Messor
"America's part of the world? I have been gone a long time!"
- Fry, Futurama
On a lighter note:
http://www.nearmintheroes.org/images/letsgocanada.jpg
The guy at Near Mint Heroes has done a series of Photoshops of various war propaganda posters themed on Civil War. Fun stuff.
http://www.nearmintheroes.org/blog/?m=20070314
?Quote:
solipsistic
Is that anything like "dip-stick", that thing we use to check the oil level in our automobile?
Argh. I'd stayed away from this site deliberately to avoid spoilers, just in case. But I have an Omega Flight wallpaper at work and someone who read the Ottawa Citizen article asked me how I felt about having more Americans on the team than Canadians. When he rattled off the Americans, I thought he'd pointed to Talisman so I corrected him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oeming
"Not her. Him." :?
I apologize, folks, in that you've already been up and down this conversation so I'm probably going over a beaten path, but add my name to those among the heavily-disappointed.
I didn't expect Mac, but I expected an American even less. And I'm in agreement with anyone making a comparison with having someone of any other Nationality than American in the Captain America suit.
It particularly surprises me in that it appears that there's an awful lot of research done about the "classic" Flight. How a negative reaction here to this little development could not be foreseen boggles my mind.
I'll buy the book, but I don't buy this reasoning. I believe you honestly mean it, Mr Oeming, because you've given us no reason to think otherwise. But if it didn't occur to you that having Canadian characters on a Canadian-based team was also a big part of the appeal to the Canadian market, then I don't know how to politely say what I want to say next.
Pitch that and see how well it goes over. And if it does get the green light, I look forward to the reaction of long-time Cap fans. I'd wager anything that you're in a significant minority in your interest in seeing that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oeming
I'm pretty well the same. I bought the book because I thought having a National hero was cool. I grew to like some of the others, but there was no one else i'd follow around from book to book.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mokole
I was still surprised when the news of Omega came out at how little Can-con there was, but once the concept was explained I sold it to myself. But this is going down about as easily as a mouthful of Buckley's.
I must have come very late to this thread - never picked up Civil War: The Initiative, so I've only just learned about the deaths of the Alphans (bar Sas) in this thread. This revelation saddens me - particularly the deaths of Heather and Puck, both of whom I consider integral characters in any Alpha-related teams.
Still, things happen and torches are passed, and I am looking forward to Omega -- in fact, I went down to my local store today, pre-ordered OF and picked up a bunch of CW issues today.
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Originally Posted by Flightpath07
- Le MessorQuote:
Originally Posted by Le Messor
"Did you hear about the atheistic solipsist? He doesn't believe in himself."
Well, I feel the same way, but I guess we're presuming that a negative reaction and controversy isn't exactly what Oeming is looking for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ottawa Renegade
Fair enough, so let me put it this way, in case you're right: Risking the interest of the die-hard fans for the sake of MAYBE gathering the casual fan is a big chance to take.Quote:
Originally Posted by Corvus
Obviously you have to weigh potential loss against potential gain. I would think one would try to please both sides as much as possible (keeping in mind you're not going to please everyone).
Having the team half Canadian and half American is a pretty good way to go about it. The loyal fans get to see some of their favourites in action again and maybe you draw new fans by giving seldom-used characters a spotlight. Makes sense.
Having an American in the Guardian suit is not a good way to go about it, in my opinion. There was little question that it would anger most of the die-hards, and I don't see it as a draw in the U.S.
Course, I could be wrong.
An American in the Guardian suit doesn't draw me in for sure. Especially when he's the American who destroyed Heather, Puck, Shaman, Mac (well I can actually live with him being dead), and killed off the V3 crew (never really got attached to Puckette and MML).Quote:
Originally Posted by Ottawa Renegade
Personally, I can even see putting Pointer on the team in some respect. But I just don't see the reason to put him in that suit.
To me it smacks of marketing logic on Marvel's part: Omega Flight is the successor to Alpha Flight, therefore we need someone in the Maple leaf suit.
Basically, using the image of Guardian as a way to try and grab Alpha Flight fans or Canadians.
absolutely it's marketing, so was killing off AF, and so was doing it off panel. It's all designed to make people talk, and frankly, it's been very successful. The market has changed, a book can't just be put on the shelves and expect to sell. There has to be intrigue . Some people have to get pissed off and make noise, and people have to talk. The internet has become one of the largest media marketing tools, but the most successful internet marketing is people talking. That's why there has been such an epidemic of spam on message boards and guestbooks. In retrospect, Marvel made some very clever moves to create "buzz marketing" for this product.Quote:
Originally Posted by Corvus
Ben
i agree 100% with ben, and he is right. i'm sure all of us long-time alpha fans would like to see nothing more than mac/heather/puck/walter/shaman/snowbird in their own monthly title again, but the market is just not there right now.
this title has been given a better lead in and more buzz than the previous two combined, so the support is there, even if some form of reverse psychology is being implemented (piss off the fans and get them talking!).
just seeing the preview pages of of #1 has me believing that mike and scott are going to be treating the series roots with respect.
i think mike in the suit makes sense and i'm thrilled that sasquatch is on the team. him and beta ray bill will make quite the powerful duo.
looking at feb.' sales numbers i am wondering what type of numbers of would have to do to sustain a ongoing. i see heroes for hire, she hulk, xfactor and excalibur floating in the 25-35k range. while ant man is barely pulling 23k. lets just hope for 50k a month and there will be no doubt it will be made a ongoing. i am still curious about the pre-release numbers, i still think someone at marvel is pulling a editorial decision, rather than a sales decision.
plus came april, i will be hitting every message board known to man to create some buzz for this title.
I agree with Ben too....However, I still think it would have been far better to relaunch the original AF after their supposed death in New Avengers (Alpha Flight: Back with a Vengeance!). Strike while the iron was hot...People were talking about them and interest was at a high that it hasn't been in years.
The Collective Massacre-survivors...Heather, Puck, Sasquatch and maybe Shaman...With Snowbird, Talisman and the twins recreate the team from the ashes. All have more of an edge to them for almost being killed and losing loved ones. Bring in other characters from AF's past (like Wildchild, Diamond Lil, Madison Jeffries and some kick butt villains).
A missed opportunity that won't come again and Marvel blew it, like they've blown a lot of things. :x :(
I think 50K is being uber-optimistic, Varo...But good for you! :D I can see the first issue selling around 40K (like Vol 3)...Who knows after that?
Dana
I think a kick to 50000 may start it off. She-Hulk, Ant-Man and Heroes for Hire have been averaging under 30000 for the total time of their runs, short as two may be.
She-Hulk has little to no growth potential as is, being a one-charcter series and not even a popular character at that (take away her nymphomania and...). The best way they add sales to that title is guest appearances to draw in fanboys/fangirls. The premise of the series is boring too. So all it can draw are She-Hulk fans and fans looking for the Slott story elements of day-to-day life, much like the Mary Jane series.
Ant-Man has more trouble, an even less popular hero doing even more run of the mill stuff, quite boring too. The character is limited in scope and has no 'tag' to draw in new readers (as in Flash is the fastest, Hulk the strongest). Very new recycled character too.
Heroes for Hire also goes big for titillation with no-name characters, restricted stories et al. It can grow but the premise of the book limits what can be told, so A-list stories are rare. I find it very boring.
Omega Flight and Excalibur, on the other hand, are established teams, developing team dynamics, not one-off character relationships, and can do various stories for various reasons. Being 'tied' to M-Day or Civil War only gives them a starting point, how the teams grow and develop is not set in stone, plus the characters themselves have mediocre to strong followings.
Really, if sales were the only factor She-Hulk and Heroes for Hire would have been cancelled already, but Marvel editors hope these books will find a larger market somehow. Both, however, will suffer from Initiative telling stories in the same style and system.
While I'm quite pleased to hear that at least some form of the Flight is still alive and kicking, I wasn't too thrilled on the front that I've seen it so far... this mailman thing really just hasn't kicked up my appetite too much... I'll buy in to it all for the purpose of tossing my support towards the Flight in general, but I'm not entirely hopeful that this will turn out to be a great story. Especially since the confirmation of the deaths. I just think that this will end pretty poorly. The Inititiave in general isn't doing anything for me, and I think even my fandom for Flight is going to suffer as a consequence.
Well, there's gonna be a second print of the issue because the first one sold out...
Nice! OF gets a decent amount of (very well drawn) pages. The Thunderbolts story really did nothing for me (and I'm a huge Venom and Green Goblin fan). Plus the great OF action splash at the end to reinforce the series. Hopefully it'll be enough to get people curious enough to pick up #1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil
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Originally Posted by Phil
wait. of what series?
i'm not following.
I assumed CW: I 8)Quote:
Originally Posted by varo
Correct.