How do you think House of M will affect Alpha Flight....

I'm not sure if this should be posted here, but it does concern AF...hey...I took a chance.

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So Joke Quesada has stated that the mutants of the Marvel Universe will be numbered at about 198(what a moronic and stupidly small number)...The other mutants that don't fit into that number will lose their powers...becoming normal humans(Jubilee and Chamber are two that have been named as possible de-powerees).

I certainly understand and applaud the need for a bit of pruning, but 198?
I imagine some of Alpha's mutants WILL lose their powers too(I doubt they matter that much to Marvel, in the grand X-Universe scheme)...Aurora? Northstar? Diamond Lil? Madison Jeffries? Flashback? Who else could be a target of the mutie-pruning.

If Marvel thinks there should be less mutants in their books....Maybe they should just cut back Wolverine's appearances in every Marvel book ...sheesh(and yes, D...here I am b****ing quite a bit :D ).

To me(IMHO)....A much more believable number would be approximately a million mutants WORLDWIDE....but one hundred and ninety eight mutants and that's it? Overkill, much?

Dana

I have to agree, 198 seems insanely small...and really, considering that there are at least three new X-books coming out in the wake of HoM, it just doesn't feel like much is being pruned back. Not only that, but despite all the hype that this event is going to change the face of the Marvel Universe forever OMG!, there's a pretty danged obvious escape hatch in just depowering mutants instead of outright killing them.

Anyway, back to the original topic. I'd say the majority of second-wave Alpha Flight is toast. Thanks to Christina, Weir, and Tieri -- fine, fine, and Austen too, but it's a grudging thanks -- Northstar and Aurora have gotten a decent amount of panel time in recent years, so there's a chance they might be considered popular enough to be spared the axe. At the same time, though, there's an equal chance that our resident speedsters might be considered superfluous; solits make it look like Quicksilver's still in the game and if you've only got 193 people to give mutant powers too, you'd likely want to avoid redundancy as much as possible.

Actually, a good chunk of core Alpha is pretty safe from Wanda's latest bout of mental problems -- out of Puck, Mac, Heather, Snowbird, Shaman, and Sasquatch, none qualify as mutants. (Which paves the way for another rant in and of itself on the inconsistant nature of super-human prejudice in the MU, but it's late.) Let's just hope that the writers remember that and don't get too trigger happy.

Suzene

Suzene

Madison Jeffries will likely be depowered. No way will the '198' universe last long. I'd give it a year. Is that how long Heroes Reborn lasted?

It would have been smarter to have HoM end with a return to the 'mutants as minority' not evolutionary improvements. That way the lack of mutants could be explained easily as nuclear testing went down so fewer mutations. "Homo Superior" should've been left as a sparkle in Apocalypse's eye.

Only 198 mutants??!! I can only see that lasting for so long, then they'll come up with something to reverse that decision. With all of the X-Titles out there, and all of the villains they're going to have to keep in order for the X-Men to have a purpose, it really doesn't leave much (if any) room open for any other title. The good thing about AF is that the team isn't comprised of mutants as a central theme.

And as far as Northstar and Aurora go, they can always lean back on the Mantlo background and say that the twins' powers are derived from their *groan* half-elf side and free up two slots that way in this lame-@$$ '198' fiasco.

I think the mutants should go back to minority status...but not THAT much of a minority.

MHO,
-Mystic

I believe Quesada has said that only 10% of the 16 million mutants pre-HoM will keep there powers and 10% of 16 million is far more than 198. Judging from the previews the 198 refers to mutants that the government has files on and consider threats.

Why do I think all Alpha will be safe?
I say this, not with hope, but cynicism.

You know what'll save Alpha? Nobody's heard of 'em. :roll:
I mean, the writer who put Flashback in Thunderbolts is endangering us all, but I don't think they'll bother to depower anybody else.

Apart from the Twinz, who may be -too- high profile to hit.

- Le Messor
"Do you really think third-rate military dictators would laugh at America and burn our flag in contempt, if Ronald Regan were president?"
- Roger Waters, Radio KAOS

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Originally Posted by Hyperstorm

I believe Quesada has said that only 10% of the 16 million mutants pre-HoM will keep there powers and 10% of 16 million is far more than 198. Judging from the previews the 198 refers to mutants that the government has files on and consider threats.

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I certanly hope that is the case. And I also certainly hope that out of these mutants, no more of them are related/cloned/fomer acne of Wolverine.

-Mystic

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Originally Posted by Hyperstorm

I believe Quesada has said that only 10% of the 16 million mutants pre-HoM will keep there powers and 10% of 16 million is far more than 198. Judging from the previews the 198 refers to mutants that the government has files on and consider threats.

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That sounds much more believable, than a mere 198. I too, hope that's the case.

Dana

There's no official number yet, the only thing that's been confirmed by the higher ups is somewhere between 200 and 300. :\

I thought it was 198 per country...no? :twisted: :shock: :P 8)

Quicksilver is apparently also one of the mutants that loses his powers permanently....sigh.

The list(so far):

Jubilee
Chamber
Quicksilver

This is such an incredibly stupid idea. I'm hoping Quesada gets lots of hate mail for this stunt, maybe it will wake him the heck up.

Dana :evil:

Add Blob to that list too, judging from the Gen M #3 cover.

What??!! Thanks Phil...Maybe we should keep a running list of this horror somewhere?

Dana :roll:

Maybe AF's mutants will escape notice, maybe not(I hope they will anyway, especially all the originals...)

Here's a list of possible targets(I hope I didn't miss anyone)...
(This is just some fun and frightening speculation)
Question marks indicate uncertainty that the character is a mutant...

Aurora
Centennial
Diamond Lil
Feedback
Flashback
Flex?
Ghost Girl?
Goblyn
Madison Jeffries
Major Mapleleaf Jr?
Manikin
Murmur?
Northstar
Pathway
Persuasion
Puck II?
Wild Child
Wyre?

Edited because I did not see the news forum until now. :oops:

Feh...Don't worry about 'Squatch, Spy(BTW...welcome to Alpha Waves!)...I don't believe even Joke Quesada is THAT dim to think that Walter is a mutant...but then again...you never know.:shock:

Dana [-o< [-o<

My collection is incomplete. Has Aurora been restored to her full mutanthood? When Walter changed her physiology in AFV1# 17, I thought it made her safe from mutant-detection. I always thought she had become a quasi-mutant, if there is such a thing.

I'm not 100% sure Garry, but I think that undetectability has since worn off(and her powers have altered several times since then), she was found and kidnapped by the Weapon X program and they mutated her further, giving her the ability to speed up other's metabolisms.....or something like that(It was never very clear what her new abilities actually did).

Dana

Koenig; Thank you for the welcome! :D

It's not so much Quesada I'm worried about but rather writers and minor editors who flub all the time as well as some fans.

I think there's been a lot of "sky is falling" talk about this, so I'll wait and see what happens before I comment. Even the number of mutants left over is suspect at this point so it's not worth getting worked up about.

I think it could open up some stories though. For example, while Quicksilver's losing his powers they're making a mini-series out of it. It's not just "let's sweep him under the rug to get rid of him." When's the last time Quicksilver, powered or no, has been this high profile?

I really think this will depend on how the writers handle it, and I doubt they're going to spell out all the remaining mutants to the readers right away anyways. That list is likely internal to Marvel and will be revealed slowly as story allows.

Also, since they're just being depowered and not killed the door's never closed. Think about it... "the depowered and distraught Madison Jefferies makes a deal with Somon the Artificer to regain his abilities, but at what cost!" Etc etc etc.

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Originally Posted by Spyridona

Koenig; Thank you for the welcome! :D

It's not so much Quesada I'm worried about but rather writers and minor editors who flub all the time as well as some fans.

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I wouldn't be worried about fans, Spy...they really have very little say in what happens to characters.

Dana

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P

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I

L

E

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:twisted:

DEPOWERED
Angel
Beak
Blob
Chamber
Iceman
Jubilee
Magneto
Quicksilver
Scarlet Witch
Stacy X
Tag
Wind Dancer

POWERED
Beast
Bishop
Bohusk, Tito
Cable
Cannonball
Colossus
Cyclops
Dazzler
Dust
Elixir
Empath
Erg
Firestar
Forge
Frost, Emma
Hellion
Jazz
Justice
Lorelei
M
Magma
Mammomax
Marvel Girl
Meltdown
Mercury
Mr. M
Multiple Man
Nightcrawler
Nocturne
Outlaw
Pryde, Kitty
Rockslide
Sage
Siryn
Strong Guy
Surge
Toad
Warpath
Wisdom, Peter
Wolfsbane
Wolverine
X-23

UNCONFIRMED/UNKNOWN
Archangel
Aurora
Big Bertha
Bruiser
Callisto
Cloak
Dagger
Domino
Doorman
Flatman
Gambit
Havok
Husk
Icarus
Karma
Marrow
Mirage
Mister Immortal
Mystique
Northstar
Polaris
Prodigy
Professor X
Psylocke
Richards, Franklin
Rictor
Rogue
Silver Samurai
Squirrel Girl
Stepford Cuckoos
Storm
Sunfire
Sunspot
Wallflower
Wither

This list was compiled by the staff at www.x-mencomics.com/xfan/

MM :-s

What about Wicked?

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Originally Posted by maniac mike

S

P

O

I

L

E

R

S

:twisted:

DEPOWERED
Angel
Beak
Blob
Chamber
Iceman
Jubilee
Magneto
Quicksilver
Scarlet Witch
Stacy X
Tag
Wind Dancer

POWERED
Beast
Bishop
Bohusk, Tito
Cable
Cannonball
Colossus
Cyclops
Dazzler
Dust
Elixir
Empath
Erg
Firestar
Forge
Frost, Emma
Hellion
Jazz
Justice
Lorelei
M
Magma
Mammomax
Marvel Girl
Meltdown
Mercury
Mr. M
Multiple Man
Nightcrawler
Nocturne
Outlaw
Pryde, Kitty
Rockslide
Sage
Siryn
Strong Guy
Surge
Toad
Warpath
Wisdom, Peter
Wolfsbane
Wolverine
X-23

UNCONFIRMED/UNKNOWN
Archangel
Aurora
Big Bertha
Bruiser
Callisto
Cloak
Dagger
Domino
Doorman
Flatman
Gambit
Havok
Husk
Icarus
Karma
Marrow
Mirage
Mister Immortal
Mystique
Northstar
Polaris
Prodigy
Professor X
Psylocke
Richards, Franklin
Rictor
Rogue
Silver Samurai
Squirrel Girl
Stepford Cuckoos
Storm
Sunfire
Sunspot
Wallflower
Wither

This list was compiled by the staff at www.x-mencomics.com/xfan/

MM :-s

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Hmmmmm....There are quite a few mutants left off those lists(Banshee, Sabra, Topaz, etc...)...

So Blob, Iceman, Magneto, Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver lose their powers(characters who've been around for about 40 years), but Mammomax(who's name sounds like it means "big breasts"), Tito Bohusk(whoever the heck that is???) and possible Squirrel Girl get to keep theirs? Quesada(and Claremont) is such a....I'm not going to say it. I'm going to be nice and say nothing. :x :x

Dana :roll:

P.S. It's odd that Wanda de-powered all of the surviving original Brotherhood of Evil Mutants members, but not Toad. I wonder why she left him powered?

well the whole thing was left very open ended really. I would be supprized to see this all last more than a year. They'll get a few decent "learning to live without thier powers" stories, and it will all be restored is my guess.

Ben

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Originally Posted by Ben

well the whole thing was left very open ended really. I would be supprized to see this all last more than a year. They'll get a few decent "learning to live without thier powers" stories, and it will all be restored is my guess.

Ben

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I totally agree with that.

Wait, wait, wait: help me on this one.... how is it that Angel is in the depowered list, yet Archangel (who's been going by Angel again recently - last I heard anyhow) is still powered. Unless there's another Angel that I'm not thinking of, that would be conflicting story...

Also, the only 'Erg' from this list that I know is the old Morlock, but he's dead! been dead since the 'Fall of the Mutants' storyline waaaaaay back in the mid 80's.


I'm confused (more than usual)...

Angel is Angel Salvadore or something like that, Beak's girlfriend.

So what about Windshear, Box, Feedback, Diamond Lil. etc?

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Originally Posted by Mokole

Angel is Angel Salvadore or something like that, Beak's girlfriend.

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Oh right, the fairy-winged one from Morrison's run (God, I dispised his run. given the option of him or Austin, I'll take Austin)

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So what about Windshear, Box, Feedback, Diamond Lil. etc?

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Box and Diamond Lil MIGHT survive, since they are still being use, but it's iffy. Feedback and Windshear haven't been around in, great Jiminy, about a decade, so I don't think too many ppl would be sorely missing them (unless, naturally, they are on this board). At the moment, I'd think Feedback would have more recognition than those two, and he's had a nearly twenty year hiatus between appearances!

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Originally Posted by HappyCanuck

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Originally Posted by Mokole

Angel is Angel Salvadore or something like that, Beak's girlfriend.

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Oh right, the fairy-winged one from Morrison's run (God, I dispised his run. given the option of him or Austin, I'll take Austin)

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So what about Windshear, Box, Feedback, Diamond Lil. etc?

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Box and Diamond Lil MIGHT survive, since they are still being use, but it's iffy. Feedback and Windshear haven't been around in, great Jiminy, about a decade, so I don't think too many ppl would be sorely missing them (unless, naturally, they are on this board). At the moment, I'd think Feedback would have more recognition than those two, and he's had a nearly twenty year hiatus between appearances!

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Windshear appeared(although he was retired from Super-heroing) in Thunderbolts pretty recently, didn't he?

Dana

Windshear appeared in Thunderbolts #43

Any theory on how "hard air" sculptures are actually feasible would be appreciated?

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Originally Posted by Spyridona

I'm slightly worried. I saw they included Sassy as apart of the defense forces, I think, in House of M #6. He's NOT a mutant and even if the body he's in isn't 'his', the person he inherited from wasn't a mutant as well. :?

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Maybe he's pulling a Spidey and making people believe he is a mutant to escape prejudice.... Or maybe Brian Micheal Bendis is just a tad ignorant when it comes to AF members. Wait, Bendis ignorant? ....Naw! :wink:

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Originally Posted by DelBubs

Windshear appeared in Thunderbolts #43

Any theory on how "hard air" sculptures are actually feasible would be appreciated?

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C'mon Del... it's Fabien Nicieza, who absolutely loves to play the game "if I take this character's powers to the logical extreme, what could they do?"

So with Windshear, it's easy. Go from "creating hard air" to "creating hard air in specific shapes".

From there move on to "creating permanent hard air objects" and you're done.

(The fact that Colin apparently worked out a lighting scheme that renders the objects visible doesn't hurt. :-)

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Originally Posted by DMK

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Originally Posted by DelBubs

Windshear appeared in Thunderbolts #43

Any theory on how "hard air" sculptures are actually feasible would be appreciated?

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C'mon Del... it's Fabien Nicieza, who absolutely loves to play the game "if I take this character's powers to the logical extreme, what could they do?"

So with Windshear, it's easy. Go from "creating hard air" to "creating hard air in specific shapes".

From there move on to "creating permanent hard air objects" and you're done.

(The fact that Colin apparently worked out a lighting scheme that renders the objects visible doesn't hurt. :-)

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Hiya Dwayne, so reading between the lines, suspend believe :-) Gotcha ;-) A definition of 'hard air' would help as well, I guess :?:

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Originally Posted by DelBubs

A definition of 'hard air' would help as well, I guess :?:

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I think that's the same stuff in one of those male prosthetic pump thingies. How you make a sculpture out of it though is beyond me.

*sigh* I need to stop getting into new fandoms, because something like this happens.

http://www.marvel.com/catalog/showco...4&format=comic

:( Apparently, House of M will screw around with Alpha Flight.

Cloak and Dagger are not true mutants, due to the drug that activated their powers, and they are still powered as of current issues of Runaways.

Icarus, that Archangel rip off that he is, still had powers.
Dani Moonstar has lost her powers.

White Queen still has hers.

Is the loss of some of Alpha's superflous minor members a big deal? It would actually help clarify the waters if Persuasion, Diamond Lil, Feedback, Goblyn, WildChild, Manikin, and all the V2/V3 mutants were depowered? I say keep Pathway, because her teleportation powers could be useful to the team.

Rogue had too much put into her recently for her to lose her powers.
Madison Jeffries seems to be the root of the sentinels now, so he will probably stay powered.

When/what issue did Pete Wisdom get resurrected from his death in X-Force? More importantly, why?

Kozzi, it was decided a while back that Cloak & Dagger were latent mutants and that's why they survived the drug experimentation while others died. New Warriors fans (myself amongst them) laughed at the first hint of this, but it is now written into Marvel lore. This has of course led to less dilligent writers explaining their powers as mutations with no mention of Mantlo's origins of the pair.

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Originally Posted by kozzi24

Is the loss of some of Alpha's superflous minor members a big deal? It would actually help clarify the waters if Persuasion, Diamond Lil, Feedback, Goblyn, WildChild, Manikin, and all the V2/V3 mutants were depowered? I say keep Pathway, because her teleportation powers could be useful to the team.

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While I agree with SOME of what you said, I can think of a FEW of these former members who should be spared - and brought into the spotlight again.

[quoteRogue had too much put into her recently for her to lose her powers.[/quote]

Right now, Rogue has more powers than most people have socks, so what if she's missing a few?

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When/what issue did Pete Wisdom get resurrected from his death in X-Force? More importantly, why?

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Actually, Pete didn't die, he faked his death - tho I don't know why, except that it had something to do with X-Force. What I wanna know is when the hell he got his eye back!

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Originally Posted by DelBubs

Kozzi, it was decided a while back that Cloak & Dagger were latent mutants and that's why they survived the drug experimentation while others died. New Warriors fans (myself amongst them) laughed at the first hint of this, but it is now written into Marvel lore. This has of course led to less dilligent writers explaining their powers as mutations with no mention of Mantlo's origins of the pair.

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Wha...huh? Cloak and Dagger were latent mutants back when they had their own series...long before the New Warriors came along.

Dana