On the Byrne Board....More Alpha Flight discussion...

It feels like some of these folks are brown-nosing in saying they completely stopped collecting AF when Byrne left the book (it doesn't entirely ring true for all that are saying this)...But I can definitely see the points of some, who actually gave the book a try beyond issue 28...Those who didn't, really have no footing. Those who did try past 28 and dropped it, I can definitely see where they're coming from...

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/f...=2&totPosts=52

Many of us here...Continued, loved, hated, reasonably enjoyed, struggled and even cringed (sometimes) our way through all three, four volumes. I love the characters from the original Alpha Flight, yet I do regret reading many of the horrors perpetrated upon our favorite Canadian heroes...(Like...Puck isn't dwarf, he's a really tall man housing a demon that makes him short...The Beaubier twins are fairies....Or Walter is resurrected in Snowbird's body and is now a Wanda...WTF?! We all know these horrors by heart)

Somebody over there even said that Heather putting on the Guardian suit was really forced and made no sense...I have to violently disagree with him. She took over as leader after Mac's death, she was brave, strong-willed and she realized (quite logically) during the battle with the Hulk (started by Byrne and ended by Mantlo), that she was powerless to help her team out (Truthfully: Other than sending the team on missions and being a mother hen, she was useless to them). When she later found Bochs and Jeffries working to repair the Guardian suit (created and worn by Delphine Courtney)...It made every bit of sense to me, that she'd be the one to wear it.

I know some of you feel she should not have put on the uniform, but to me...it was a very logical step. Do I like all the character changes wrought by Mantlo on Heather after she donned the suit?...No...But the suit did give her the power to back up her will, allow her to join her team on the battlefield and gave her the resources to protect herself and her team-mates (if the need arose).

Dana

I agree that Heather donning the suit was inevitable, and that Byrne would have developed Heather into the role. If you re-read the second Alpha Omega battle, Heather had the visor and was drawn wearing red and white...even in that battle, she was beginning to look like Guardian.

I often wonder what would have happened if JB had stayed on the book. I don't think he would have put Heather in the suit. He seemed to imply that she functioned better as a behind-the scenes leader -- check out Heather's appearances in AF vol.1, #19, 24, and 28, in particular.

He was also setting up some storylines that Mantlo then built upon: AF vol.1, #20-21, (Gilded Lily's mansion, which became AF's headquarters); Snowbird's relationship with Doug Thompson, (would she have become pregnant, though?); and the search for a new body for Walter.

However, some of the things Mantlo did were ridiculous, particularly Puck as Razer. Judd seemed more realistic as a regular dwarf. And then, the slew of unnecessary deaths and departures! I tried to like the book after JB left, and I continued to buy it till the bitter end, (I wanted to support AF). But Mantlo changed things too drastically.

In the letters page, Byrne himself denied he'd put Heather in the suit (before it happened) :
"The idea of making that costume work on the female form boggles the mind." or words to that effect.

- Le Messor
"I mean, that motto ('Non Timetis Messor'), is it really in good taste? 'Fear not The Reaper'? You don't have to, do you? Or do you?"
- Teatime, Hogfather (movie version)

Byrne also would not have wanted to show his hand before he was ready for the actual story to unfold.
Perhaps he would have redesigned the costume so the maple leaf would not get folded under Heather's breasts (which grew after Byrne left anyway)?

I also disliked very much the Aurora depicted by Mantlo (stereotype and unidimensional, IMO) But this was already thing made in place by byrne.

Peronally, I always thought Byrne had created a 3rd personality there and this would have been shown in the future if he had stay. Of course, I may be deluded.

http://www.geocities.com/rplass/afcollector/nor4b.jpg

:shock:

Is there any way Byrne could just pick up where he left off? Has anyone discussed this? It'd be pointless and unlicensed, but man it'd be friggin cool...okay, in the immortal words of Aerosmith (can't wait for the next Guitar Hero game): "Dream On!!! Dream On!!! Dream On!!!

ahh ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Live, love, laugh & be happy,
Smikes

I've suggested just that on his board. I think there was a thread about him potentially returning to books he'd worked on before, and I included AF 29, just a second after the Hulk smashes Box.

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Originally Posted by Le Messor

In the letters page, Byrne himself denied he'd put Heather in the suit (before it happened) :
"The idea of making that costume work on the female form boggles the mind." or words to that effect.

- Le Messor

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Funny thing was that in the Winter of 85 I was in Calgary and happened upon the handbook of the Marvel Universe Deluxe edition.Which was cool enough. But also inside was a pic of heather in the cowl by Byrne. As I remeber it.

JC

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Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck

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Originally Posted by Le Messor

In the letters page, Byrne himself denied he'd put Heather in the suit (before it happened) :
"The idea of making that costume work on the female form boggles the mind." or words to that effect.

- Le Messor

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Funny thing was that in the Winter of 85 I was in Calgary and happened upon the handbook of the Marvel Universe Deluxe edition.Which was cool enough. But also inside was a pic of heather in the cowl by Byrne. As I remeber it.

JC

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Yup...He drew her in the Vindicator cowl in the Alpha Flight team headshots.

Dana

And a little bit more. Can not believe it's 25 years.

Erik Larsen is a smart man...

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"When I wrote Wolverine (for all of a minute and a half) one of the things I made an effort to do was restore the original Alpha Flight team (which I
blew, actually--I hadn't read all of the issues of the later series and I did
research online and got a few details wrong--not that my editor knew
any better--sigh). My hope was that whoever did them NEXT would take
the hint--but no.

The thing is--the original team was the only time the book ever really
sold well (except that blip where Northstar came out of the closet in one
of the most ham-fisted, embarrassingly bad sequences to ever appear in
print-- for the love of god--why can't my brain purge these images from
my head?). Why do they keep relaunching this book with new characters?
What evidence is there that anybody will care if it's NOT the REAL team?

I just don't get it."

Erik Larsen
Publisher Image Comics

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Ditto! I'd like to see Erik Larsen write Alpha Flight. Finally, someone who really understands the team!

second it.

I' don't know about that...He said himself, that he doesn't know their history very well...But at least he can see how badly they've been treated (Marvel lacks his vision).

Dana

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Originally Posted by cmdrkoenig67

Erik Larsen is a smart man...

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"When I wrote Wolverine (for all of a minute and a half) one of the things I made an effort to do was restore the original Alpha Flight team (which I
blew, actually--I hadn't read all of the issues of the later series and I did
research online and got a few details wrong--not that my editor knew
any better--sigh). My hope was that whoever did them NEXT would take
the hint--but no.

The thing is--the original team was the only time the book ever really
sold well (except that blip where Northstar came out of the closet in one
of the most ham-fisted, embarrassingly bad sequences to ever appear in
print-- for the love of god--why can't my brain purge these images from
my head?). Why do they keep relaunching this book with new characters?
What evidence is there that anybody will care if it's NOT the REAL team?

I just don't get it."

Erik Larsen
Publisher Image Comics

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Where is this quote from?

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Originally Posted by mreeez

Where is this quote from?

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From the Bynre Board...Alpha Flight 25th anniversary thread, page 5 (the link was posted on page one of this thread by Del).

Dana

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Originally Posted by cmdrkoenig67

I' don't know about that...He said himself, that he doesn't know their history very well...But at least he can see how badly they've been treated (Marvel lacks his vision).

Dana

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Ah, but Dana, the thing is, he's ADMITTED his mistake the first time, and knows that he'd have to bone up on his history -- Heck, I THINK I can think of a website or two that could help him out with that! ;)

So, he'd have no reason to get any Alpha history wrong! He knows he was a bad boy back then.

The only problem I had with Erik Larsen and AF was the way he bought Snowbird back. That said, considering what he was attempting to do with those 'Wolverine' issues I'm not gonna hold that against him.

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Originally Posted by HappyCanuck

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Originally Posted by cmdrkoenig67

I' don't know about that...He said himself, that he doesn't know their history very well...But at least he can see how badly they've been treated (Marvel lacks his vision).

Dana

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Ah, but Dana, the thing is, he's ADMITTED his mistake the first time, and knows that he'd have to bone up on his history -- Heck, I THINK I can think of a website or two that could help him out with that! ;)

So, he'd have no reason to get any Alpha history wrong! He knows he was a bad boy back then.

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I guess so...I'm just glad to see somebody in the biz recognize the abuse being done to good characters.

Dana

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Originally Posted by DelBubs

The only problem I had with Erik Larsen and AF was the way he bought Snowbird back. That said, considering what he was attempting to do with those 'Wolverine' issues I'm not gonna hold that against him.

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As he said, he didn't know much about their recent history (probably the root of his mistake with Snowbird's revival)...At least he got rid of the Teenage Mac Clone?

Dana

i would like to elect erik larsen for some kind of prize.

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Originally Posted by varo

i would like to elect erik larsen for some kind of prize.

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And, I will second that one!

(I think the prize should be he gets chained to a chair until he can deliver to us 10 wonderful years of great new Alpha Flight stories...)

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Originally Posted by Flightpath07

Quote:

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Originally Posted by varo

i would like to elect erik larsen for some kind of prize.

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And, I will second that one!

(I think the prize should be he gets chained to a chair until he can deliver to us 10 wonderful years of great new Alpha Flight stories...)

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Wow, remind me never to enter any contests run by you, Flightpath!!