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Very good second issue! Im really liking the pacing and where the story is going. Fred is clearly showing respect for these characters and is using them not just as a Canadian shtick, but as important Marvel characters. Well done.
The art is just incredible. I was a fan of Dale's work since JSA and Im so glad he is doing this book.
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Some minor tiffs such as Mac saying he died twice (died only once), a Great Beast bone preventing Snowbird from transforming (perhaps Ranark did a spell on the bone fragment as well), Walter being de-transformed from gamma radiation exposure (is Tanaraq being ignored? I doubt it, but seemed odd), and Talisman's talisman was drawn incorrectly (but it was just an illusion so I will let it slide :p). Once again just very minor issues from an excellent book. Love Puck is back, the Great Beast reference from Greg and Fred's Hercules run, Aurora turning sides, etc, etc, etc.
Wonderful issue, loved it.
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great issue !!!some of the characterizations were different than normal (to me)but the jury is still out because its just issue 2!
Great issue but Vindicator thinking of having to do with overthrowing/taking control of the gov't in some way is kinda weird for her character to me ....the jury is still out on that one because we need to know her motivation besides being with her daughter, i just couldn't see heather participating in the sabotage and brainwashing of her teammates unless she was brainwashed somehow ,Dept H has been known to be very shady (vol2) so we'll see. Shaman brainwashed they must of had some great methods because Shaman seems very mentally strong so that was surprising. Marrina on the cover of a Vouge magazine ??? what the hell has been going on since god war lol(or was that brainwashing too?), I like the whole box army of robots thing very Cool, the Hudson protocols where he has ways to stop every alpha very cool too! Northstar seemed well characterized but he said he saw heather blasting mac and followed them?!? did I miss something in issue 1? maybe I did ...if not they should have shown that not left it off panel and I think that was not Ranark from that marvel 2 in 1 team up with alpha I think its some new Raveger they said his name was Neooqtoq? Puck was great he acted weird but if you see how he was living in hell in the Wolverine comic then you'll know why lol, the art was great the best alpha has had in a very long time...to me the issue was great! I brought it at lunch read it and gave it to my co-workers 10 year old son I'm trying to make a new alpha! cant wait a month for the next issue!!!!! I HAVE TO SEE HOW THIS STORY PLAYS OUT!!!!
LONG LIVE ALPHA FLIGHT!!!
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-Marrina thing was an illusion, it didn't happen. Same for Shaman being with Talisman
-Neooqtoq is a Great Beast that Snowbird took the form of in Incredible Hercules. It was meant as a shout out to a story Greg and Fred did with Snowbird some time ago.
-I don't think this is really Heather's "doing", looks like she got the same process Aurora is about to get done and got brain washed.
thanks from clearing that up!
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I love how Northstar basically says, "Nobody is faster than me"...
... and he's right! I'm so glad to have writers and artists who can actually write and draw a speedster. Well done! But it's also nice that Freg put in the superlative, and nice the way they had him say it, just perfect.
Not understanding Kyle's last name. I was pretty sure it's "Roy", not "Jinadu", so dunno what's up with that.
And.. Talisman!!! In an VR sweat lodge, yeah, but I'll take it, and she's wearing the classic costume, not the physics-defying Omega Filght thingy (which I still don't understand how it could stay on)
No explanation about how Puck got out of Hell, but we'll see, maybe that's revealed later.
Overall a great issue again!
I really enjoyed this issue, great pacing and it kept me wanting more. Cannot wait for 3!!!
Loved the issue. The plot thickens nicely, Puck's recent history is touched upon, the pacing was great... and Dale's art (with help from Andrew and Sonia) was incredible. His Heather is absolutely gorgeous (I've had a slight crush on Heather for going on 25 years.) Really looking forward to #3.
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The reveal of Aurora's sexual abuse pretty much soured the whole issue for me. Even aside from the fact that last thing the industry needs is more female characters with rape/sexual abuse as the go-to for past angst and trauma, there are two modes most writers default to with Aurora: she's either one of two flavors of crazy (boy or bat****) or she's a victim. I am very disappointed to see Van Lente and Pak going for the latter -- and no, it doesn't matter if this is all about her overcoming her past. With everything that Jeanne-Marie suffered at the hands the Sisters, various AF villains over the years, the Director, and The Children of the Hand, retconning in more victimhood and making it the sexual abuse of a child came off as gratuitous and sleezy.
I've got to hand it to the writers -- after how well the team in general and Northstar in particular have been handled, I didn't think there was anything they could do to make me consider dropping this book full stop, but they've managed to pull it off.
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I'll probably re-hash some stuff I covered in my review here, but with actual spoilers.
I personally really liked the Great Beast connection to Snowbird being taken down, especially the tie-in with the Sacred Invasion storyline and the foreshadowing of (presumably) Ranark. If we hadn't seen the #4 cover I'd be wracking my brains as to who it'd be.
Heather's line about killing Puck really has me thinking. To me that's the most uncharacteristic thing we've seen so far.
Everything to get her daughter back could well be her own choice, but that definitely hints to brainwashing or evil clone etc. as Aurora's treatment hints.
I'm loving Puck's reappearance.
If he came back exactly the same as he always was I'd have be annoyed by the lack of continuity, but this sinister Puck is a nice touch. Especially talking to the bear.
As hinted in my review, I loved the Talisman cameo. It was a really touching moment, espcially with the use of the word 'unity' or at least it would have been had it been real.
Marrina's desire to be loved and accepted shows there's still the Marrina Smallwood we knew and loved beneath her teen angst exterior/front.
Seeing Kyle was alive pleased me, I really didn't think they'd kill him off in #1.
Great art, great attention to detail, and the Mac splash page was very cool indeed for someone who's never really had that much action in the grand scheme of the title.
I loved the human element and the more realistic take on 'Fear' and the involvement of humanity within a superhero dominated world.
I really like this new /old Alpha Flight!!!
I hope Marvel extends this beyond eight issues!
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Obviously I liked it and there is no cause for me to gnash teeth. Everything I expected it to be and more. First thoughts were that the whole business with Aurora and abuse by social worker didn't really tick me off as much as I thought it would. Sounded a bit cheap when I first heard of it and it does come across as a bit of a redundant plot thread, but I shall reserve judgement.
This is purely speculative, but after reading this I , for the moment will work under the premise that Heather isn't really Heather. It's the flimsiest of reasons, but I don't believe even a totally controlled Heather would say what she did while fighting Puck. That amount of vitriol would have to be directly implanted if she was hypnotised or mind contolled, given what they shared in the past. It could well be her body, but any vestige of Heather is well buried. Probably wrong, but ...
Citadel and Purple Woman are really growing on me. Would love to see them stick about when all this is over.
Cody was never as bad as he is at the moment, something or some one must be sitting in his head.
Can't wait for #3
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Also, I was quite shocked that Agent Brown was on the 'evil' side.
I quite liked him in Omega Flight and finally thought the team had found a non-corrupt liason.
Hopefully he's being mind controlled too, rather than just being a company Yes Man.
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It's Jerry Jaxon and Heathers really Delphine Courtney, who's personna resides in the suit 8-)
I forgot about the Agent Brown issue. I'm with you, he must be being controlled. To much of a character shift.
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I wonder what Puck ment by "Known to you mortals ..." I wonder if he's possessed or something?
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A pretty solid piece of work from the whole creative team.
It's looking like the "not brainwashed" line from #1 was a lie. But I can't really see Pak and Van Lente doing something like that and ending up saying "oh yeah she was brainwashed, so of course she is going to say she isn't brainwashed!". So this whole Unity thing has to be something else. Because if it turns out to be brainwashing I will be very disappointed.
Now if it isn't brainwashing, I can conceivably see Heather as being weirded out by Puck's new personality (heck, I'm currently weirded out by Puck), hence the "freak" line. I mean, he just came from hell. Who can say that he isn't some demon. I'm very intrigued by his statement that he knows what is going on, that he has information from hell. Could all the Unity folks be possessed by demons?
I'm tending to agree with suzene on Aurora's new molester. I feel it's unnecessary, as we could have used any of the old ones, and it would still work. I mean, think of the impact of seeing Soeur Anne strapped to a chair with a rubber ball in her mouth. Think of all the publicity we would get!
I'm very skeptical of Snowbird being beaten by a Boxbot. Shape shifting isn't her only power. She is superstrong as well. Even in her Narya form, she should have been able to smash em. Narya smash!
Finally, now I know why we havent seen Rocksie for so long. She was in hell with Puck.
:)
Not my intention. It is directed at myself. I was trying to convey that I couldn't find anything in the comic to make me get overly negative. I did have a tendency to only see negatives and ignore positives at one time. If the comment has been taken as dismissive then I can only apologise, never my intention. I'll amend.
suzene, no offense but never once did the scene say molested, it said abused, which can range from mental to physical, not necessarily sexual. thats just a interpretation. i interpreted as every time jm's powers flared up they threw her in a dark room. i fully understand where your coming from as far as the social issue, but a comic book forum seems like the last place you would want to discuss them.
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I re-read what was written before I responded to Suzene. The implication was Sexual Abuse, "There were others", "Why, whenever he got found out, his superiors just shipped him off to another town". All the images of the other victims are young females.
This sequence took place in an AF comic so this seems like a reasonable place to discuss the subject matter.
Hopefully no offense will be taken, my intention was to be devils advocate and nothing else.
Art doesn't happen in a vacuum. It reflects the attitudes of the world around it and affects the people partaking of it, and keeping quiet about the negative aspects helps exactly nothing except to allow them to continue unchallenged. Trust that I don't start these discussions for pleasure. I've been waiting for this series as long as the rest of the Flight fandom, and having my enjoyment pulled up short by this sort of thing is not fun. Neither is voicing criticism on a matter of importance to me, knowing that it is going be met with indifference or dismissal from most corners (and in that, I am speaking generally, not specifically of this forum). But it's either speak up or be complicit, and I sleep better if I go with the former.
As for the rest of it: Firstly, the scene is clearly meant to suggest that Jeanne-Marie was sexually abused -- the story that was attached to the scene, that of the person with authority shuffled off to a new batch of victims every time his misconduct was discovered, is a direct lift from the Catholic church sex abuse cases. Secondly, if there wasn't supposed to be any implication of sexual abuse, the scene would not have to be rooted in subtext, as the physical and mental abuse in Byrne's run was directly mentioned. Thirdly, if there was meant to be no suggestion of sexual abuse, FVL could simply have said so when directly questioned about it.
You're free to believe what you want in the face of available evidence, but don't imply that I'm having an unreasonable reaction to a scene with other obvious interpretations.
When I read through the issue and the scene in question I did take it to be sexual abuse from the male in question, especially with the other victims(who wouldn't have light powers) and the abuser being moved around.
To me (while obviously not condoning any kind of abuse, lets get that out there for starters) it didn't come off as completely out of nowhere.
In many cases that I've read of (second hand, obviously so I have no real basis to judge it upon and may just be falling to media hype etc.) in a lot of institutions/cases where abuse has been recorded (not just religious institutes either, let's get that stated clearly as well - I'm in no-way making a slight upon religion either, the fact that JM suffered at the hands of nuns is aside) mental abuse and physical abuse tend to go hand in hand.
Had it suddenly been revealed that Heather's reason for joining Unity was that she was molested then I'd be writing this Volume off to the great pile of Mantlo & Lobdell-isms.
(Marrina, Snowbird even more so, but that's just even more ridiculous.)
So for me, while I definitely agree that the implication was sexual abuse and that the story could well have been told without it, I don't feel that it's completely out of place, and nor does it have any baring on my thoughts towards Aurora. In the way I see it, this isn't the cause of the Aurora personality.
But that's just me.
I'm a statistic/database geek who likes pretty pictures. I don't always tend to get themes.
And without putting a mod hat on, this is just my personal opinion so anyone can feel free to disagree: As Del's said, the issue's been raised within the comic so I feel it's very relevant as long as we're basing the conversation on JM/Aurora. I believe that the majority of us are mature enough to deal with the subject here as long as we're keeping it relevant to AF.
Putting my mod hat on: If anyone does have a problem with the subject matter feel free to give Ben, Del, Rob or myself a PM.
One thing that did occur to me. Did FVL interpret Byrnes original story to mean sexual abuse. There's many recorded cases of problems within Catholic institutions. It wouldn't be to much of a leap to assume that Byrne meant sexual abuse. If FVL was working from that premise, it doesn't mean I suddenly agree with that plot device being used, but I could understand better why it was. If it's just FVL expanding on an established story with controversial/sensational plotlines, then hmmm??
I can't answer FOR him, but it never came off like sexual abuse in the original story to me. It was "simple" mental torture and beating. The saddest part is, the Sisters likely meant well. That doesn't excuse what they did, not one bit, but it wasn't IMHO intended by them as evil.
I personally didn't care for the addition of sexual abuse only because, hey, Aurora already has acres of bad road to work through, and adding more is a bit troubling. Knowing it was done because Marvel didn't want to offend Catholics (again IMHO, any Catholic, of which I am a lapsed one, who would find fault with this wouldn't be reading most of Marvel or DC's output now anyway) softens things slightly. Still not crazy about it, but it won't be a deal-breaker on the book.
In thinking more about this, I think I preferred Marrina's old look. This one isn't BAD, not at all. Just not what I think of when I visualize of "my" mental picture of Marrina. Seeing her back and not simply a clone for Osborn's schemes is nice.
Take it and run,
It makes sense to me that Freg went with the sexual abuse angle for just one reason: Marvel wouldn't let them use a Catholic figure (nun or priest) in this role so they had to go with a different, non-Catholic authority figure, that being a social worker. The only thing is a social worker wouldn't be involved with her punishments, in fact he wouldn't even see her very often, so he couldn't fill the role of mental/physical abuser that's needed here. The next logical idea, if they are to use this character, would be to make him a sexual abuser.
One thing I can't figure from all of this. FVL may or may not have read sexual abuse into Byrnes story, but Marvel would much rather that kinda controversial story than pissing off the Catholic church. What where they going to do? Stop their secret funding, send in Torquemada to discuss respect with the bullpen, a nun in every office with a ruler and a grimace? Being a devout atheist, I don't know what weight the Papacy carries nowadays. Plus the story actually negates the whole annoying 'his holiness' aspect when you read that the authoritites knew of the caretakers proclivities, but instead of reporting them just moved him onto fresher targets?
Just to be clear, they did (trying to remember to give fair weight to Greg Pak here, because even if FVL is the Alpha Fan on the team, Pak's name is on there too). From my convo on FVL's Twitter:
Though, considering how many people's reaction to this has been "What? I never saw that.", I'd question how obvious that subtext is.Quote:
I'd argue we just forefronted the obvious subtext of what Byrne set up, but I respect your opinion, even if we disagree.
What's considered offensive/inappropriate seems to change from editorial team to editorial team and rarely makes sense to me -- remember when the exploding communion wafer/raped nun storyline from Austen's run about six years back made print, but Northstar having a boyfriend in that same run was considered too controversial? Or how one teen suicide was considered too dark for a children's title over in New Mutants 2.0, but the next creative team on the book was allowed to blow up a whole busload of students? That using an actual nun was considered too risky while still being able to use the true-life behavior widely publicized by the misdeeds of the Catholic Church (though not exclusive to them, sad to say) as shorthand for sexual abuse is just fine is similarly confounding.Quote:
but Marvel would much rather that kinda controversial story than pissing off the Catholic church. What where they going to do? Stop their secret funding, send in Torquemada to discuss respect with the bullpen, a nun in every office with a ruler and a grimace? Being a devout atheist, I don't know what weight the Papacy carries nowadays. Plus the story actually negates the whole annoying 'his holiness' aspect when you read that the authoritites knew of the caretakers proclivities, but instead of reporting them just moved him onto fresher targets?
But yeah, the last time anyone really made a fuss over a Marvel book that I saw, was the Tea Party folks getting offended about being portrayed accurately in Captain America. If Austen comparing religion to cancer couldn't get the EIC burned in effigy, I don't think this would have made much of a splash. As it is, I think making the sexual abuse explicit has irked more readers than the nuns would have.
It's a given now that Aurora was damaged by the caretakers actions, so where, in six more issues, can the writers go with this? Is there going to be some major developement in Aurora's character that would make the reveal even remotely palatable. I hope that this is developed now that it's out there. I would hate for it to be controversy for the sake of controversy with no further mention in the series.
It may well turn out that the abuse was as real as Marrina being on the cover of Vogue...
That seems unlikely. The writers obviously mean the attempt to break/turn Jeanne-Marie to be based in "real" events, otherwise, why try to bring in the nuns or invoke Byrne? And it would break with how the Unity folks have been approaching the team. All the Alphans who are being fed lies are having their heart's desire used as the chink in their armor, but those lies are grounded in actual events -- Shaman does have a strained relationship with Talisman, we can take Marrina's constantly being viewed as a monster by the people she cares for as where her fear of rejection due to her being an alien comes from, etc . Their theory with Aurora seems to be that her heart's desire is to be revenged on those who hurt her when she was young and helpless.