And look where it got you, all befuddled and such :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil
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And look where it got you, all befuddled and such :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil
Yup, and that all stemmed from sleeping on yer sofa. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by DelBubs
And nothing whatsoever to do with the copious amounts of alcohol, or strange herbal tobacco you consumed that evening :-) ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil
BTW, this two day pass for Bristol, you buying on the day or beforehand?
Not a clue man, far too early to organize that ;)
If we're not bothering with the awards and stuff, I may just get it at the w/e, dunno if I can be arsed to order it.
But then again if people want I can order for everyone again.
Bubs and I aren't interested in the award thingy, just the entry thing. So if you can scare up a couple of passes, it would be much appreciated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil
Okay, please don't slap me here, but here's a thought... if Persuasion was all that suitable, why didn't they use her? Simple. The second Alpha Flight series was drastically different than the first, for one. It was all about the manipulation of the team by Department H, playing the conspiracy angle up to the fullest, and it was a lot easier for Dept. H to manipulate a few veteran members (which they could have on the team to show the Canadian public that the new Alpha Flight had the membership and support of people like Heather and Puck, whom they knew of and trusted) than to manipulate a team made up ENTIRELY of veteran members. See, Murmur and the other Hull House recruits were people that Dept. H could control more readily (this was hinted at by referring to them as "Legacy" cases) because they had groomed them for this duty. I'd be willing to bet that Dept. H had a hand in the upbringing of Radius, Flex, Murmur, and Ghost Girl practically from birth... training them (probably not even to their knowledge) to be the perfect government [sleeper] agents. Dept. H probably felt that these children were more trustworthy and thus more suitable, because they could control them easier.Quote:
Originally Posted by beetleblack
And second, when Marvel decided to relaunch Alpha Flight in the wake of Onslaught, creating new characters for a series can help new readers get into the book more. They don't have to know EVERYONE'S history, because they've got fresh faces that they can start following, and start to root for, because they know what these characters are about. They don't have to run out and buy a bunch of back issues to find out who the characters are. They're learning as they go. That's one of the reasons that I'm enjoying Lobdell's Alpha Flight: because the majority of these characters are brand-new, and it's easy for me to get on board and follow what's going on without having to ask a bunch of questions, like "So how did so-and-so come to this decision since the last series?"
Does this make any sense?
Yes, it does make perfect sense. I have to admit that I've only read a few issues of v.2 (and that was at the time of the release) I've since bought all the v.2 issues and intend to read them after completing the re-read of v.1 - so my knowledge of that series is not good. I just remember at the time picking it up and thinking it odd that they would bring in a character with almost exactly the same powers as Persuasion, and as I rather liked her it kind of annoyed me.
I'm sure in the long run of the story arc it makes sense why they would have had to have new characters come into the Flight (as well as the reasons of new readers wouldn't be bogged down with too much history if the team was made-up of all veterans) and perhaps when I do read the whole story my opinion will change. I suppose at least in v.2 there were more original characters than we're getting in the all new v.3... but again, I should really reserve judgment.
I think what made it even worse was that in the promo picture for the second series, Murmur was shaded with a light purple coloring. I doubt that it was intentional, but it made it even more annoying that she replaced Kara.
I agree with the rationale behind why they chose a new character. I guess I just don't understand why they had to choose someone with such similar powers. If it was to control Sasquatch, they could have had a character with low-level telepathy or bestial communicative skills...
My thoughts on why Murmur instead of someone with low-level telepathy or bestial communications skills... well, maybe they wanted to play with the old plotline of Kara using her powers indiscriminately and selfishly. The difference, though, is that Kara had a good heart... and we can't really say the same for sure about Murmur, since she was so obviously under Department H control. She tried more than once to use her powers to kill (albeit, she was being controlled by Mesmero for one of those incidents). Murmur was a wildcard that Department H enjoyed having, because she could (if so ordered) make any member of that team do anything she wanted.
1. Series 2, #1.
2. I first bought an AF title (without collecting) when V.1.125 came out. I rember seeing Northstar and Witchfire (tho I didn't learn their names until MUCH later...
3. hmmm.... dunno... I'd say Byrne era Snowbird, or post-#100 Northstar (he was less of a jackass)
4. 'character' or 'hero'?? well, let's assume hero - that would have to be Witchfire...
5. Toss up between the Master and Kolomaq the Great Beast
6. EASY!! Smart Alec and Llan the Sorcerer
7. oooh, a toughie.... I'd say the first 12 iss' of vol. 1
8. *drools at prspect*... um, sorry... Aurora, Nemesis, 'Star, Wildchild, Snowbird, and Sasquatch, just because every team needs a Wookie-wannabe... anyone else is just gravy
9. what kind of question is that?? okay, I'll play along... for shear survival sake, Wildchild (in his sane days; don;t wanna end up food...)
10. Was: Heather, Is: Well, there's only Walt right now, Could be:I think that Madison had potential...
11. Byrne
12. Mantlo, o'course. need you ask?
13. Clark
14. Rouleau
15. I would have erased iss' 32 and 50 out of existence!
Is this true? I've never read anything where Byrne would diss his work on AF. Somebody help me out here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahab
Aurora over Heather, the fruit loop instead of the best leader Alpha Flight ever had ? Baffling :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyCanuck
With you on that.Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyCanuck
Character wise I think Aurora has more potential than Heather - but then I've always prefered mad birds!
I liked Heather - don't get me wrong - but I prefer the orginal Heather rather than the various odd versions we got later on. Putting her in a suit was a bad move. Also her constant whinging at the loss of her husband and having to be leader always got on my nerves - the original Heather would not have done that. Guess it all boils down to who's writing her.
As for the whole Bryne hating the series that he helped create, I seem to remember reading somewhere (not too sure where) that he felt the characters were all too two dimensional or something and that it was too hard to write for them!!!! I'm really not sure if this is true or not, it seems particularly stupid coming from the person who CREATED these characters, surely if he was unhappy with them HE could have changed them???
Aurora and Heather where almost ruined as characters by Mantlo, but Heather made a strong comeback after Mantlo left, Aurora had been set on a path of malignant psychosis and all the following writers seemed to concentrate on that aspect of her character.
Since then Heathers been a mainstay of the team, while Aurora has just become more and pathetic. Tieri, has written her well, but only as a as a continuance of the psychotic nutter we see today. I'd like Aurora to become a member of AF again, but not as a liability, like she is now.
1. How long have you been collecting Alpha Flight?
Since the new #1 that just came out.
2. What was your first memory of Alpha Flight? If recent, what was your first reaction?
Loved it!
3. Who is you favorite Alpha Flight character?
Sasquash
4. Who is you least favorite Alpha Flight character?
I don't know if the earthmover guy counts but I disliked him
5. Who is you favorite Alpha Flight villain?
The only one I can remeber that other shamman in wolverine around the 170's i think
6. Who is your least favorite Alpha Flight villain?
don't have one
7. What do you think is the best issue / story-arch from Alpha Flight?
So far the first isssue of the new series
8. What do you consider the Alpha Flight "Dream Team"?
All the peple in it now and Aurora
9. If you were to be stuck on a desert island with one member of Alpha Flight, Who would it be (powers can not get you off the island) The hot bartender chick
10. Who was/is/could be the best leader of Alpha Flight?
Sasqaush?
11. Who is your favorite Alpha Flight writer?
Scott Lobdell (Is that how you spell it?)
12. Who is your least favorite Alpha Flight writer?
None Well i guess I didn't like how chuck austen wrote them
13. Who is your favorite Alpha Flight artist?
Clayton Henery Loved his exiles to
14. Who is your least favorite Alpha Flight artist?
none
15. If you could undo one thing in Alpha Flight history, what would it be?
The earthmover guy
I'm not one of those posters that makes up unfounded statements. All you need to do is read some of Byrne's responses on his own website to quickly determine his attitude regarding Alpha Flight. It's somewhat disappointing...Quote:
Originally Posted by PWalk
agreed, the first time I read Byrne's quotes on how he felt about AF, I felt like a child who's icream fell on the sidewalk.
1. How long have you been collecting Alpha Flight?
About nine months. I've only got the back-issues up to #50, as that seems to be where the series hit the "OK, this is no longer entertaining enough to be worth actual money" point.
2. What was your first memory of Alpha Flight? If recent, what was your first reaction?
*sigh* X-Men. Animated series. "Repo Men". Stop laughing -- I swear I can actually reach through this screen and do you bodily harm.
3. Who is you favorite Alpha Flight character?
Northstar. Snark, speed, and abandonment issues. What's not to love?
4. Who is you least favorite Alpha Flight character?
Sasquatch. My first impression of him in the comics was the dumb smart jock, and I'm afraid it's stuck.
5. Who is you favorite Alpha Flight villain?
Scrambler!
6. Who is your least favorite Alpha Flight villain?
The Swrts...the Svwerts...the Szvxth...the Dark Elves.
7. What do you think is the best issue / story-arch from Alpha Flight?
AF vol.1 #7 and #8 -- The Importance of Being Deadly and Cold Hands, Cold Heart. Special runner-up prize for "The Gift".
8. What do you consider the Alpha Flight "Dream Team"?
Easy question, that. Original volume one, issue one line-up.
9. If you were to be stuck on a desert island with one member of Alpha Flight, Who would it be (powers can not get you off the island)
Northstar. I hate feeling obligated to make conversation. Not a problem with that guy.
10. Who was/is/could be the best leader of Alpha Flight?
I thought they did just fine under Vindicator.
11. Who is your favorite Alpha Flight writer?
Byrne.
12. Who is your least favorite Alpha Flight writer?
Can I say Chuck Austen just for writing a horrible, horrible Northstar? No? Lobdell, then.
13. Who is your favorite Alpha Flight artist?
Byrne.
14. Who is your least favorite Alpha Flight artist?
Whoever illustrated AF #106. Gag me.
15. If you could undo one thing in Alpha Flight history, what would it be?
Issue #50 never happened.
Welcome suzene!
True enough, though there certainly is some good stuff later on. I woule recomend you still get your hands on the Fuman run.Quote:
About nine months. I've only got the back-issues up to #50, as that seems to be where the series hit the "OK, this is no longer entertaining enough to be worth actual money" point.
GASP! Say it aint so!Quote:
4. Who is you least favorite Alpha Flight character?
Sasquatch. My first impression of him in the comics was the dumb smart jock, and I'm afraid it's stuck.
Though I haven't read much of the stuff Austin did "to" Alpha Flight, just the though of him putting them in battle armour offends me. As for Lobell, here's hoping you opinion changes. I'm keeping an open mind. I've enjoyed the book so far, and I have faith with the previes. But then again, I am an optimist :)Quote:
12. Who is your least favorite Alpha Flight writer?
Can I say Chuck Austen just for writing a horrible, horrible Northstar? No? Lobdell, then.
Ben
True enough, though there certainly is some good stuff later on. I woule recomend you still get your hands on the Fuman run.Quote:
About nine months. I've only got the back-issues up to #50, as that seems to be where the series hit the "OK, this is no longer entertaining enough to be worth actual money" point.
From what I remember, I did not liked Furman run, I thought it was boring if I remember correctly.
Honestly I picked up around V.1 #125. But know that I own every Alpha Comic with the exception of #129. One day, I tell you , One day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
I thought the team was cool. I was a teen c'mon. Teens rarely have in depth thoughts. JKQuote:
Originally Posted by Ben
MarinnaQuote:
Originally Posted by Ben
Murmur. What is the piont? Talk like Aurora, powers Like Persuasian? I guess the 2nd volume needed a sex symbol . Ugh. Actuallyu Manikin is tied with her. HATED Him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
The Government.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
Or DreamQueen.
Wrecking CrewQuote:
Originally Posted by Ben
The first 12 issues. Without a doubt , IMO, the best issues. Building and defining for all the characters in the team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
Ohhh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
Heather
Northstar
Aurora
Marinna
Pathway
Persuasion
Sasquatch
Jeffries
Northstar. Well I am gay. ;). Although if this is one of those which Alpha do you think is the hottest type questions, I'll go w/ Jeffries.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
Heather.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
I'm skipping the Contributors section.
Finding Manikin.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
Bolloxs, sodding HTML, this and this, it's a lot of sodding about, thats all it is. :x :x :x
Anyway re #129, if I see one while out and about, I'll grab it, if you want, that is.
Oh and don't go ragging on Manikin, :lol: he's gotta be better than Radius :x
Del, do you help to write extraordinaire?
:o :wink: :twisted:
I wondered if you would pick up on the subtle, but deliberate mistake I made. (Honestly, I did know) :oops: :oops: :cry: :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by syvalois
1. How long have you been collecting Alpha Flight?
Volume 3/Issue 1
2. What was your first memory of Alpha Flight? If recent, what was your first reaction?
The X-Men cartoon. My first thought was how cool Vindicator's costume was. Best costume ever.
as for the comic, my first reaction was, :D
3. Who is you favorite Alpha Flight character?
Snowbird. Ignoring the convoluted and confusing continuity, from what I have read she is a consistantly interesting character.
4. Who is you least favorite Alpha Flight character?
As it stands, I have none and wish to avoid back issues of bad periods in order to gain one.
5. Who is you favorite Alpha Flight villain?
None yet.
6. Who is your least favorite Alpha Flight villain?
Department H, I agree with Lobdell's assessment.
7. What do you think is the best issue / story-arch from Alpha Flight?
I really enjoyed X-Men 120/121. I think the Alpha Flight issues were by far the best part of the Claremont/Byrne X-Men.
8. What do you consider the Alpha Flight "Dream Team"?
Guardian, Sasquatch, Shaman, Snowbird, Northstar, Aurora
Although, here's hoping the new ones can earn their place.
9. If you were to be stuck on a desert island with one member of Alpha Flight, Who would it be (powers can not get you off the island)
New Puck, my theory is this, eventually, anyone would become friends under those circumstances unless they have some bitter animosity, in which place they kill each other. I have no bitter animosity with any Flighters. And since I'd end up friends with any of them, it makes sense to go with a babe.
10. Who was/is/could be the best leader of Alpha Flight?
I have no idea, although I liked Guardian as the leader who doesn't want to lead, but that makes him an unlikely candidate for best at it. Probably Heather is best.
11. Who is your favorite Alpha Flight writer?
Undecided.
12. Who is your least favorite Alpha Flight writer?
I'm happier without an asnwer, unless Austen counts, stupid armour.
13. Who is your favorite Alpha Flight artist?
I want to say someone different, but lets face it, Jim Lee just freaking rules.
14. Who is your least favorite Alpha Flight artist?
I'm happier without an answer.
15. If you could undo one thing in Alpha Flight history, what would it be?
The armour.
What? It was a test? Only for me? thank you :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by DelBubs
Yes, and you where more than equal to it :P I shall have to be more Nefarious, when next I test :shock: :twisted: :shock:Quote:
Originally Posted by syvalois
I'm not going to try the new incarnation. The only member that's carried over is Sasquatch and, like I said, he's not a favorite of mine. Between a writer I'm not crazy about, an old cast-member I'm not fond of, and a new cast that doesn't interest me either way, there's just not a lot of incentive for me to give Lobdell or this book a chance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
Why yes, I am a bit of a dinosaur. ;)
Suzene
I can respect that, however the origonal members will be showing up in #3, and I'd say there's a good chance they will be sticking around. My view on collecting Alpha, even if you don't like the direction it's currently going, is that of supporting the book, keeping from falling under the Axe. At the same time you can express your feeling for it's directions to Marvel...but that's just me :)
Ben
Agreed - while re-reading the original series it's amazing how many different directions it goes in over the 130 issues. At the end of the day I intend to give the book the benifit of the doubt to begin with, give it a good chance and see how it goes. With so many ex-Alphan's floating around the Marvel Universe who knows what the future holds for the team...Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
Yeah I went over there and checked and couldn't really find anything. What shocks me is I met the guy about 10 years back and talked up Alpha Flight with him for 15 minutes. I was 16 or 17 and kept saying to myself "I'm talking with the man who brought me Sasquatch and Puck, AWESOME!!!" At the time he was very cordial and took some time to discuss the series. Basically I just told him how much I liked the idea of #12 Vol 1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahab
I have to pick up my ice cream if what you guys are telling me is true.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/features/byrne/
Splat, there goes my ice cream all over again! :cry:Quote:
MDT: Second now only to FF, this book was the closest thing to you it seemed: a super-hero team spread across the vast space of Canada and not just Canadian clones of the Avengers. At what point did you decide to give up the book in lieu of the Incredible Hulk (a comparatively short run)? Any regrets in the long run?
JB: ALPHA FLIGHT was never much fun. The characters were created merely to survive a fight with the X-Men, and I never thought about them having their own title. When Marvel finally cajolled me into doing ALPHA FLIGHT, I realized how incredibly two-dimensional they were, and spend some twenty-eight issues trying to find ways to correct this fault. Nothing really sang for me. If I have any regrets, it would probably be that I did the book at all! It was not a good time for me.
MDT: Any thoughts of reviving the team with your particular twist on them?
JB: Well, based on the above. . . .
MDT: What's your take on the last incarnation of the team?
JB: Didn't look. Saw a poster of them with steroidic muscles and constipated grimaces, and thought "Okay! No need to even open an issue!"
Hmph! If I had ice cream, Byrne would be wearing it about now!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
Mind you I don't think that's the ENTIRE story, but I don't feel like writing a long post displaying my thoughts on the matter (but if Ben wants to -which I doubt - he's free to), so I'll wait till later.
Thanks Ben, now I have ice cream to clean up.
Maybe when I spoke with him he was just going along with a kid to not squash my feelings on the team. How can these characters be considered 2D? Geez if anything they have too many dimensions to them.
Well - and no disrespect to John Byrne himself (whom I AM a fan of) - but I think it's a shame that he isn't happy or proud of his work on Alpha Flight because from what I can see most of us think that his run was the BEST!
HOWEVER at the end of the day, we read it and loved it and it meant something to us and just because he wasn't happy with it doesn't mean that we have to change our opinions. For me (and I'm guessing for pretty much most of you) the characters were rounded and REAL and the stories were produced well and illistrated beautifully. And who knows, people's attitudes change - just because he has one opinion of AF at the moment does not mean that he will always have this opinion - maybe in years to come he will come to see his work on AF with a new light. Only time will tell, I guess...
Abso-friggin'-lutely.Quote:
Originally Posted by beetleblack
I have to admit, though, I don't see anything so bad about some of Byrne's comments...the first part is true enough: Alpha never really had a uniting theme like a good many other super-hero teams. They were just a group of Canadians super-heroes whose only purpose for creation was to beat-up the X-Men for a couple of issues. I can understand why a writer would less than thrilled to be assigned them. I also won't argue with his lack of enthusiasm regarding the later incarnations of the team -- most of the uniqueness of AF had long since been squandered and they looked like a typical (and not very well done) super-hero team.
The middle section of his comment however, comes across as Byrne either being too critical of his own work (if you want to take it nicely) or just *****ing because the enduring popularity of his take on the the team doesn't vindicate his reluctance to work on the book in the first place. It's a shame either way, because the team's lack of unification and general oddness was what made Byrne's AF run memorible. Alpha Flight was one of the most screwed up teams in Marvel's history and that's what made it interesting -- they had no goal in common, they were just government employees thrown together and it showed! Half the time, they could barely stand each other (Northstar ticking off everyone, including his own sister eventually, Talisman's grudges again Shaman, Sasquatch picking on Puck's height, Snowbird's seeming indifference towards everyone except Shaman, poor Marinna nearly gutting Puck, Heather's grief and self-loathing after Mac's death) and the other half they were desperately in love/lust with each other (Puck/Heather, Aurora/Sasquatch, Mac/Heather). It was a train wreck, but it was great to watch.
If the writer doesn't/won't see the merit of his own work, that's a shame, but once it's on the shelves, it's out of his hands and his opinion really doesn't matter that much.
Suzene
I may pick up issue 3, then, but it'll take a lot to lay my reservations to rest. Maybe it's better in execution than in concept, but the idea of Alpha Flight being a Marvel humor book chills me in places that sunlight can't warm. Lobdell's done some good stories on other books, but Giffen he's not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
I especially fear of how Northstar's sexuality would be protrayed...*shudder*
Maybe it'll segue into a more serious style later on, but what I saw in issue #1 didn't hook me. *shrug*
Suzene
1. How long have you been collecting Alpha Flight?
Since vol 1 #35. Thats gotta be at least 15 years or so... :)
2. What was your first memory of Alpha Flight? If recent, what was your first reaction?
i was around 13 or 14 on a bus and the nerdy guy next to me brought a whole mess of comics along for the ride. AF#32 was one of them. i liked the twins with the powers that cancelled each other out and the midget with the demon inside him.
3. Who is you favorite Alpha Flight character?
Heather Hudson
4. Who is you least favorite Alpha Flight character?
Manikin
5. Who is you favorite Alpha Flight villain?
Gilded Lily
6. Who is your least favorite Alpha Flight villain?
Carcass *barf*
7. What do you think is the best issue / story-arch from Alpha Flight?
Talisman's intro when they go back in time to fight Ranaq
8. What do you consider the Alpha Flight "Dream Team"?
Heather
Madison Jeffries
Northstar
Aurora
Talisman
Snowbird
Jade Dragon
Stitch
9. If you were to be stuck on a desert island with one member of Alpha Flight, Who would it be (powers can not get you off the island)
Puck. He's resourceful and great to talk to.
10. Who was/is/could be the best leader of Alpha Flight?
Puck
11. Who is your favorite Alpha Flight writer?
John Byrne
12. Who is your least favorite Alpha Flight writer?
Simon Furman. I think it was kind of boring when he was the writer...
13. Who is your favorite Alpha Flight artist?
John Byrne
14. Who is your least favorite Alpha Flight artist?
Calimee, but i dont like a whole bunch of guest artists
15. If you could undo one thing in Alpha Flight history, what would it be?
The resurrection of Guardian
1. How long have you been collecting Alpha Flight?
..since around 1986.
2. What was your first memory of Alpha Flight? If recent, what was your first reaction?
..a 6th grade classmate let me read his copy of #25(vol 1) and I was blown away.
3. Who is you favorite Alpha Flight character?
..between either Box (I) or Talisman.
4. Who is you least favorite Alpha Flight character?
..the new female Puck.
5. Who is you favorite Alpha Flight villain?
..none really stand out at the moment.
6. Who is your least favorite Alpha Flight villain?
..no opinion right now.
7. What do you think is the best issue / story-arch from Alpha Flight?
..(vol 1) #25-#28
8. What do you consider the Alpha Flight "Dream Team"?
..the original team plus Box (I) and Talisman.
9. If you were to be stuck on a desert island with one member of Alpha Flight, Who would it be (powers can not get you off the island)
..Snowbird
10. Who was/is/could be the best leader of Alpha Flight?
..Heather
11. Who is your favorite Alpha Flight writer?
..Byrne
12. Who is your least favorite Alpha Flight writer?
...
13. Who is your favorite Alpha Flight artist?
..Byrne
14. Who is your least favorite Alpha Flight artist?
...
15. If you could undo one thing in Alpha Flight history, what would it be?
..bring back Roger Bochs
:x How can she be your least favourite if you have ony seen her for one issueQuote:
Originally Posted by Great Lakes Avenger