Looking at these panels, I thought that this happened when the team was formed during the mini, but you're right; it could have been later. Does anyone else have any opinions on this?
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Looking at these panels, I thought that this happened when the team was formed during the mini, but you're right; it could have been later. Does anyone else have any opinions on this?
I think it's supposed to be current time (yes, I broke my oath not to buy any Marvel books until AF was brought back to pick this up :oops: ), but it also explains why she didn't join OF during the mini at the same time.
Have to agree that FVL not only knows Snowbird, but gives a damn about her (and maybe us the fans). Her dialogue is perfect and her scene with Herc (if you read the story you know what scene I'm talking about) shows her prowess.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...d/snowbird.jpg
Heh, when it comes to gods, it could be BOTH!! If you think about it, how many times have we seen in mythology siblings marrying each other, or even their parents! Heck, Hercules' own family tree is more a mangled bush than an actual tree.Quote:
Originally Posted by birdygirl
Well, first it would depend on WHICH Narya this is! Is it the REAL Snowbird (who's body is being worn by Sasquatch), who married Doug Thompson, or Clonebird (who was raised by AIM in Wolverine), who is married to YJ?Quote:
2) Snowbird says her marriage is over. Does she mean the one to Doug Thompson or to Yukon Jack?
Tho, I don't think she meant her romantic marriages, but more of a euphamism to her "allegiences" to Alpha/Omega Flight or Guardian. Basically, I took it to mean that all the bonds to Canada's Superteam-du-jour have been severed because all those who she cared about in Alpha Flight are dead. (Also, I think it was absolutely MORONIC to send Pointer to recruit Narya. Frankly, it'd probably be better from Talisman (who, in effect is her foster-sister), or Sasquatch - despite the fact that he's wearing her body to walk around looking like one of her most despised enemies.
I'd chalk that up to artist mistake and lack of research. Unless you are a fan of Byrne's work, you really wouldn't think of that aspect of her, so it's a common mistake, one that I feel I can let slide.Quote:
Snowbird also has normal eyes here, instead of her black-and-white ones. She still looks absolutely gorgeous, though.
No arguments here!Quote:
I give the highest praise to the creative team on this one. By all means, Greg Pak and Fred van Lente should write an Alpha book. They've already got my support. I hope Marvel's paying attention to this issue. Well done!
Am I the only one who finds it comedic when a great god says "oops"?? :lol: :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by King Mungi
Quote:
Originally Posted by birdygirl
I got the impression that this was after the events in MCP.
It must be after...
Also, I can't imagine that Narya is a skrull...Not after that confrontation with Pointer...She is pissed (She is feeling just how I feel about AF's current condition)! I will be picking this up...This storyline runs at least, until #120.
I've already put in my order for the next issue. :wink:
I think the skrull is Amatsu-Mikaboshi. He's the only god who has been alone for any length of time (easy to replace), is a shapeshifter and is the one trying to sow doubt about Athena at the end of the book.Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrkoenig67
I'm really happy to see Snowy again. She was great in the issue.
I picked it up...Marvelous stuff. I really enjoyed Narya's reaction to Pointer and her interaction with Herc.
I have to wonder about the "My marriage is over" comment, though...She must mean either the original one to Douglas Thompson(which tied her more to the human world) or the recent one to Yukon Jack (which also tied her down...Although, I thought that is was the temporal copy-Snowbird that married him)...I just don't know which one the writer was referring to.
Dana
I commented on my opinion on this matter before, but it never hurts to reiterate: I think she meant her "marriage" to mean her loyalty to whatever version of the team was mucking around. I believe she meant it to mean that any feelings of loyalty she had to Alpha Flight died when Pointer killed Alpha Flight, thus her "marriage" to the team was over, she was a free agent again, and she had no intention of going back (also means that, should Alpha Flight - more especially Mac and Shaman - be revived, then she would probably be one of the first ones to join up)Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrkoenig67
Sorry, Allan...I did see your comment, but I feel she's being a bit more direct in the wording about her marriage. I just don't feel she was referring to being "married" to Alpha Flight...At least, to me...It didn't read that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyCanuck
Dana
yeah, i think she was refering to her marriage as well. van lente knows the history of these characters all to well for it to be a subtle reference. knowing his love for old school alpha, i think she's refering to her marriage to doug thompson, not yukon.
That's what I was thinking, but with her new (and convoluted) marriage history (Thanks a lot, Scott L... :x )...You never know.Quote:
Originally Posted by varo
Dana
Someone should try to get ahold of Van Lente and ask him to clarify this. For Narya to bring up her marriage to Thompson so cavalarly, when it hasn't been touched on since Mantlo killed off both Snowbird and Thompson back in the '80's, seems to be too much of a side-note for me. Also, if Van Lente is such a lover of old school Alpha, then he'd know that Thompson and their infant son were transported to the realm of the gods as well, therefore, her marriage to him WOULDN'T be over.Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrkoenig67
And if she's referring to her clone's temporal copy's marriage to Yukon Jack... well, "convoluted" doesn't say enough.
One of the main reasons why I like IH# 117 is because of the smart way Snowbird was handled: as VARO mentioned on NEWSARAMA, Snowbird said exactly what she should have said to Pointer, did exactly what she should have done to him, and showed heroic-and-aloof restraint because she had every right to avenge her fallen comrades.
Moreover, her marriage reference can be interpreted at least two different ways (Allan thought of another): (1) Doug Thompson (which is more "established" in Alpha Flight continuity), or (2) Yukon Jack (for people who believe that volume 3 actually happened; I am not one of those people). Although I may be the lone voice for this, I don't think asking for/getting "clarification" will settle it, anyway, and the debate will go on. I like that people can believe whichever marriage they want to believe it means.
The God-Squad looks like it's being set up, right from the start. I don't think the "Uncle Hodiak" line was a mistake (isn't Hodiak Snowbird's grandfather?) I don't know how Hodiak has power to recind Snowbird's limitation, but if he does why hasn't he done it before now? I'm interested to find out. Even if Hodiak or Snowbird turn out to be Skrulls (I really hope not, though), Snowbird gave Pointer exactly what he deserved.
On the rescinding of the limitation and why Hodiak didn't do it before - it keeps Hodiak in Canada, where she needs to be to fight the Great Beasts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry/Al-Fan
But they both were in the States when the Gods gathered though :?Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
After all, it was a god meeting, so where they were doesn't matter so much. So Hodiak was there, but Nelvanna et al weren't, so to me, no big continuity problem.
I'm thinking Snowbird was referencing Yukon Jack as in 'not married', one more attempt to erase v.3 from history. She's no "temporal copy", as Hodiak would only access the one and only Narya. :D
The temporal copy Snowbird married Yukon Jack, not the real Snowbird (revealed in All-New OHOTMU A-Z 12)
Then Fred's reference must be Doug Thompson. Not the team.
I TOOK IT AS dOUG
Huh? I'm guessing you meant Narya, not Hodiak...Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Hodiak can (theoretically) appear anywhere, but only in spirit form, since he and the other Northern Gods are trapped in another dimension by the spell cast by Tundra thousands of years ago.
Snowbird was only bound to Canada's borders due to a spell cast at her birth by Shaman...He had to bind her to the Earth (or she wouldn't have had a physical form), but he mistakenly bound her to Canada only. The Northern Gods have no real hold on Narya, she can do and has done as she pleases...They can inflict her with pain spiritually, but that's about it.
She is her own person and she chooses to serve her godly family.
Dana
Yes, I meant Narya. And you are mostly right with the rest of what you are saying - what I am saying is that if Hodiak has just demonstrated the power to free her Shaman's spell which bound her to Canada, then probably the reason he didn't do it before is because he chose not to. He wanted her where she needed to be if the Great Beasts got loose. He had no other control over her, as you say, but he didn't have to correct the spell which kept her from wandering off.Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrkoenig67
Ah...Thank you, Loki. How about when she went into space with Alpha in Vol 3?
Dana :twisted:
Or when she went to the states to battle the X-Men :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrkoenig67
I always took it as that she could leave Canada but her power diminishes quickly outside Canada...it is her home and native land. Oh Canada
In Alpha Flight#12 she nearly died merely being minutes in AmericaQuote:
Originally Posted by mos_def
I've read this and would like to comment...
Can anyone say 'wish fulfillment'? Oh, waow!
That three days ago sequence... The writer has Birdie doing to Pointer what we all want to do to Pointer. She's saying what we're all thinking. Oh, wow! I'm so cooled by it!
I took marriage literally, and thought of Doug. But I was blocking memory of YJ.
I thought Hodiak 'lifting the ban' was one of two major plot / research mess-ups (three, if you count her eyes).
The other was sending Pointer after her; neither smart, nor in character for Pointer. But I didn't care, it let her kick his butt!
- Le Messor
"Fight organised crime, stamp out the IRS!"
The two examples of her leaving Canada without problems made us originally speculate in her last handbook entry that her death and rebirth had lifted the restriction (and let's face it, strictly speaking poor Walter should be suffering that restriction, since he's in Narya's original body). The explicit lifting of the restriction here in my opinion suggests a number of possibilities.Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrkoenig67
1) Hodiak or A.N.Other temporarily lifted the restriction those other two times as well.
2) Snowbird did lose the restriction, but Hodiak (or A.N.Other) put it back in place after she twice went walkabout - after all, given her remit of fighting the Great Beasts, she should have been around in the last Omega Flight mini. Her absence might have been down to her not being in Canada, and I doubt Hodiak would have approved.
3) Snowbird lost the restriction after her rebirth, but after a while it just naturally reinstated itself - i.e. she somehow got some sort of "energy boost" when she got reborn, which sustained her for a bit when she previously left Canada, but said reserve has finally run out. Probably the least likely option.
Thanks for the answers, Loki...I appreciate the time and effort.
Dana
No problem. And three more options just occured to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrkoenig67
(4) She lost the restriction when she got reborn. However Hodiak isn't aware of that, so he thinks she needs him to lift it to let her leave. She didn't see the need to waste time in front explaining this in front of all the other Godheads.
(5) As above, except Hodiak knows full well she doesn't need his assist. But for whatever reason (to make him look more powerful in front of his peers, or to make her appear weaker so as to make them underestimate her in any future conflict that might arise between pantheons) they acted out the "lifting the restriction" as a ruse.
(6) Hodiak is a Skrull, and his research is out of date. :P
I've always thought it was significant that when she first was affected on leaving Canada (I refer to #12), it didn't affect her 'til she tried to change shape. (Use her powers.)
- Le Messor
"Fire at will!"
"... Poor Will!"
- John K. Shirey (from WWII/CBI)
Shaman casted a spell that he didnt intend to bind Narya to Canada when she was birthed (if I remember correctly...it was the issue with Pestilence 1st appearance)
So when she died and AIM was working on her tissue, there was no spell to bind her the 2nd time.
Hi, all.
I've really enjoyed "trolling" your various posts, but I felt the urge to get more actively involved.
As many of you suspect, I've been a mega-Alpha fan since the 1980's, when John's AF series was my all-time favorite Marvel U comic (it would have to compete with DP7 as my all-time-favorite-published-by-Marvel-comic-in-the-eighties).
A lot of that is fueling my current interest in the Flight, which spreads across, largely coincidentally, a variety of books I write or co-write (Herc, MAIM, and Wolverine: First Class, which, ironically enough, is the first I wrote, though the last to get published, and I'm yet proudest of, in no small part to the insanely talented Mr. Clayton Henry on art).
I was inspired to post here because of the debate over the marriage reference in iHerc #117.
Just to be clear: I was, to the best of my recollection, referring to an off-handed comment in OMEGA FLIGHT #1 that Snowbird's marriage to Yukon Jack had collapsed.
If I am erroneous in my memory, I'd be happy to hear corrections...
Nevertheless, I thought you all might be interested in the original concept of using Snowbird in INCREDIBLE HERCULES.
My original concept was that Hodiak would (in his godlike way) eliminate all the cloned/time-travel displaced versions of Snowbird in favor of a completely reincarnated Narya that would grow very rapidly from infancy (a few years every few pages) throughout the iHerc "Sacred Invasion" arc.
Ultimately, the Powers That Be decided that idea was a tad too complicated for this arc, and I think, now having done almost all of it, they were right.
However, it would have resolved a lot of the issues you raise on this thread, that I myself share.
One of the challenges of this job is balancing the needs of the long-term fan with the short-term fan; that is to say, is it really important to resolve all the various prior versions of a character or is better just to provide the "purest" version of a given character to hook first-time readers on the initial go-around?
My collaborators were able to convnce me of the latter in this instance, and I think they were probably right.
That said, I am very heartened with the kind words on this thread about what we're doing in iHerc with Narya and I hope you continue to enjoy it.
Sincerely,
FVL
It’s always nice when a writer/artist/etc. from Marvel comes and converses with us lowly mortals. It’s always much appreciated. Firstly I just want to say your run on Hercules has been excellent and just reading it I can tell your putting a lot of work into it. I haven’t gotten this interested in Hercules in a long while, his recent mini was good but this blows it out of the water. It’s also nice you used Snowbird in her new arc, but if she is a Skrull…MUTINY :wink:
Just another quick question, was the Snowbird calling Hodiak uncle a mistake? As Hodiak is her grandfather
Also yeah the temporal copy married Yukon Jack, but that comment can work with her old marriage so all is well.
Thanks for the post and your insight
Dear Mr van Lente,
Thank you for your wonderful reply. It's so good to have a writer who really cares, writing for Alpha.
Thank you, also, for clearing up the Snowbird marriage mystery. As you probably read in my post, I was never quite sure which marriage she meant was over. It was mentioned in Omega Flight #1 that Yukon Jack had sustained "severe neurological damage" from time-traveling. (Sorry I don't have the issue in front of me. :( Perhaps he died? It was never explicitly stated.) Anyway, many fans feel Alpha Flight volume 3 was a mistake, so it's just as well Snowbird's marriage from that volume is over.
Keep up the good work in iHerc! :D I'm very much looking forward to the next issue.
Sincerely,
Suzanne
'Quote:
Originally Posted by King Mungi
Thanks for the kind words!
Yes, I'm not sure where I got the uncle thing from... Looking back over my old AF, it's clear Hodiak is Nelvanna's father.
Also, in iHerc #117, I accidentally said Amatsu-Mikaboshi was the "August Star of Morning" instead of the "August Star of Heaven"...
One of the unfortunate things about doing a series like this is you can fact-check 999 things but it's the 1,000 and 1,001st things that bite you on the ass...
Mr Van Lent, I'm enjoying Snowbird's appearance in Inc. Hercules...I especially enoyed seeing her interaction with Michael Pointer. Thanks.
Dana