Original Alpha Flight

[Phil]

if Alpha Flight volume 4 couldn't bother to tell what happened to 1 Wendigo(, Ranark, and an adamantium terrorist)

I'm genuinely interested as to why you think it's a case of they couldn't be bothered?
Life doesn't have perfect wrapped up stories, so why does fiction have to?
Not everything has to be explained and tied up in a bow; things take priority - especially when governed by profit/loss.
Especially in an ongoing comic universe where the story is never over.

I mentioned RH:MR and AX:WWW as these continued the story and actually answered your question as to government status.

Whenever a new AF series comes out, there's a big frenzy to buy lots and lots of copies so it will sell well and be popular and give the characters lots of exposure and show MARVEL that AF has a solid group of supporters.

There's only a frenzy if you choose there to be one.
Where your own money is concerned you should never be manipulated!

And then, when the readers who actually care about the group cut back from buying umpteen copies of the same thing, the powers that be claim that the readership is dwindling, that AF doesn't have devoted supports, and the team isn't viable. I'm tired of playing that game.

There's the problem then; people shouldn't buy more than one copy - that's clearly just creating a house of false statistics that inevitably comes tumbling down, proving Marvel right.
And that's fine, don't play the game - I fully, fully support your decision and completely agree with it; if you don't enjoy something, don't pay money for it.

However, just because you personally don't like something, it doesn't mean that it was bad.
Personally I think Volume 4 was far truer to Byrne than 2&3. And nowhere near 'demolishing' or 'character assassinating'

You say you'd 'rather come up with a storyline you know you'd like' - what's to say that anyone else would like it?
I'm sure Pak & Van Lente liked their storyline.

All this is very much off-topic though; I'm interested to see your vision of the team, and hopefully I will like it!

[Garry/Al-Fan]

I'm genuinely interested as to why you think it's a case of they couldn't be bothered?
Life doesn't have perfect wrapped up stories, so why does fiction have to?

[(a) good fiction should have a beginning, middle, and end because (2) fiction is not real life. Real life is real life.] Garry R. Jones

Not everything has to be explained [explaining/showing what happened to Wendigo, Citadel, Ranark, or Purple Woman when Squatch started choking the crap out of Northstar shouldn't be too much to ask] and tied up in a bow; [satisfying fiction should have a beginning, middle, and end because good fiction is satisfying fiction] ...
Especially in an ongoing comic universe where the story is never over.

I mentioned RH:MR and AX:WWW as these continued the story and actually answered your question as to government status. [and you can post a panel that will confirm this, I assume?]


There's only a frenzy if you choose there to be one. [?]
Where your own money is concerned you should never be manipulated! [?????????? I said I didn't want to play the profit-and-unviable game anymore; I don't think I said anything about being manipulated.]


There's the problem then; people shouldn't buy more than one copy - that's clearly just creating a house of false statistics that inevitably comes tumbling down, proving Marvel right. [BINGO!]
And that's fine, don't play the game - I fully, fully support your decision and completely agree with it; if you don't enjoy something, don't pay money for it.

However, just because you personally don't like something, it doesn't mean that it was bad. [You've jumped from something I "don't enjoy" inferring that it means it is something "bad". If I ever said/or wrote that volume 4 was bad, please point that out to me (so I can apologize). If I ever said volume 3 or 2 was bad, please point that out to me. If I ever said that Omega Flight mini-series was bad, please point that out to me. If I ever said that I didn't like volume 2, 3, 4 or the Omega Flight mini-series, please point that out to me.

What I have said/written and I mean to this day ---and make no apologies for---is I hate the Mantlo era. No inference needed.

Personally I think Volume 4 was far truer to Byrne than 2&3. And nowhere near 'demolishing' or 'character assassinating'

You say you'd 'rather come up with a storyline you know you'd like' - what's to say that anyone else would like it? [You imply that it has to be published, like what you're used to]
...
All this is very much off-topic though [not really]; I'm interested to see your vision of the team, and hopefully I will like it!

It amazes me that this is the longest response/reply you've ever sent me...IIRC.

[Phil]

[(a) good fiction should have a beginning, middle, and end because (2) fiction is not real life. Real life is real life.] Garry R. Jones

But an ending is finite.
These are ongoing serial tales that aren't necessarily linear. The beauty of comics is flashbacks and filling in details, and also letting the reader fill in gaps themselves.

explaining/showing what happened to Wendigo, Citadel, Ranark, or Purple Woman when Squatch started choking the crap out of Northstar shouldn't be too much to ask

But are they major elements? Can the story continue without that information?
If you have to trim the fat for space reasons you need to find things that can be cut without affecting the story you're trying to tell.
These aren't essential plot elements therefore they're not always necessary. Especially if a reader can infer what happened later.

satisfying fiction should have a beginning, middle, and end because good fiction is satisfying fiction

It clearly had an end though.
It may have only been for the major players in the story, but it clearly had an end.
An end that satisfied some people.

and you can post a panel that will confirm this, I assume?

At a quick search; a panel from each suggesting they're working for the Government again:

?

I just think frenzy is a strange word to use. I can't fathom anything in comics being a frenzy, personally speaking.

?????????? I said I didn't want to play the profit-and-unviable game anymore; I don't think I said anything about being manipulated.

It was a general 'you' rather than Garry 'you' - apologies if that wasn't made clear.
It was just the way you said "there's a big frenzy to buy lots and lots of copies so it will sell well and be popular" which if it were the case, I would class as corporate manipulation - buy multiple copies of these characters else they go away for ever and you never see them ha ha ha ha ha etc.

You've jumped from something I "don't enjoy" inferring that it means it is something "bad". If I ever said/or wrote that volume 4 was bad,
please point that out to me (so I can apologize).

Again, I've misphrased that, so apologies - general community 'you'
Maybe I should have said "However, just because someone personally dislikes something, it doesn't mean that it was bad."
All in all; one man's gold is another man's excrement.

What I have said/written and I mean to this day ---and make no apologies for---is I hate the Mantlo era. No inference needed.

And I will support your right to that hate!

You imply that it has to be published, like what you're used to

It depends on your use of 'published'
Do you mean published as in professionally and for profit, or just published online for others to read?
I'm 100% for fan-fiction and there hasn't been any here in a long time.
If you meant that you'd rather write a storyline for yourself and for no-one but you to read then that's fair enough.

It amazes me that this is the longest response/reply you've ever sent me...IIRC.

I don't talk about Volume 1 a lot, to be honest.
I tend to talk about what's being published lately.
This is rooted in Volume 4 so it's relevant to my general conversing.

[Yankee]

I had written a post which I guess I inadvertendly deleted. My vexing with Garry wasn't that he held a different opinion but that he seemed to infer I was a moron for holding a different one. Ie when I said I disagreed with his points saying the master couldn't pull off that level of a coup, his response was to say " you are entitled to your opinion" And then realist all of his points again, ending on "I assume a lot," which seemingly implied that because I didn't agree with his long list of points, then I'm stupid.

[Garry/Al-Fan]

...


But are they major elements? Well, for me, yes, when Squatch and Wendigo are in the middle of a fight. Can the story continue without that information? Yes, it can. And it did.
If you have to trim the fat for space reasons you need to find things that can be cut without affecting the story you're trying to tell. I can live with that.
These aren't essential plot elements therefore they're not always necessary. Especially if a reader can infer what happened later. But I infer that Ranark whisked Wendigo and Citadel away, to who knows where, and that's probably not what happened.



It clearly had an end though. It does.
It may have only been for the major players in the story, but it clearly had an end.
An end that satisfied some people. I stayed to the end. I don't stay to the end, if I don't care/care to know what happens.


At a quick search; a panel from each suggesting they're working for the Government again:




...

...

Thanks.

[Le Messor]

I just think frenzy is a strange word to use. I can't fathom anything in comics being a frenzy, personally speaking.

I think the frenzy Garry refers to (and maybe 'push' would be a better word?) is that whenever a new AF (or, in one case, OF) book is announced, there is a big thing on this very list! where a bunch of us tell everybody to buy multiple copies, for the reasons Garry outlines.

~ Le Messor
"God whispers in our pleasures but shouts in our pain. Pain is His megaphone to rouse a dulled world."
~ C.S. Lewis

[Yankee]

Just curious, do you have a set list of quotes you rotate through, or do you try and come up with a brand new one for each time you post?

[Garry/Al-Fan]

Someone's personal opinions on a piece of fiction can never be unfair.
Garry has his views, and he's vocalizing them - he hasn't once tried to change anyone else's views.


Again; he's not trying to change your perception; he's giving his reasoning for his views.

Being the ultra-super-persuader-to-one-opinion I'll leave to someone else. G/A-F


That strikes me as bizarre, personally.
Does reading Garry's personal opinions about fictional characters really vex you that much? For someone so vexed, the comments keep on coming.
Would it not be boring if we all had exactly the same opinions?
...
Let's all embrace the fact that we actually share some common opinions!

I think the frenzy Garry refers to (and maybe 'push' would be a better word?) is that whenever a new AF (or, in one case, OF) book is announced, there is a big thing on this very list! where a bunch of us tell everybody to buy multiple copies, for the reasons Garry outlines. 'Push' is a better word.

~ Le Messor
"God whispers in our pleasures but shouts in our pain. Pain is His megaphone to rouse a dulled world."
~ C.S. Lewis

I'm ready to move on from volume 4, as I believe was suggested not too long ago.