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Thread: Original Alpha Flight

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  1. #1
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    I'm less worried about the (616) public perception of the team than I am the things they actually did and why.
    Running around robbing banks? Not heroic. Even if you're whacked-out on Scooby snacks.

    Sedition? Revolution? Depends on who you're rebelling against. Just saying you want a revolution isn't bad in and of itself - we all want to change the world.
    The book, however, didn't do enough for me to set up the evilness of the government. They kept saying 'Mind control! Mind control!' - after a while, I started asking: 'So? What's the mind control for?' because the mind control is the tool, not the ends. As much as I don't like the idea of it, they needed more than that to set up the evil. (There was a throwaway line in the final issue about taking over the galaxy; too little, too late.)

    Heather's actions - mitigated by mind control. But the writer wasn't.

    ~ Le Messor
    "Gandhi had a sign reading: When you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper; and when you are in the wrong, you cannot afford to lose it."
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    The Old Fan Alpha Flight
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Messor View Post
    I'm less worried about the (616) public perception of the team than I am the things they actually did and why.Running around robbing banks? Not heroic. Even if you're whacked-out on Scooby snacks. I worry about all three: (1) the public perception of the team; (2) what they actually did, and; (3) why. Because I can't see (plausibly, anyhow) how even a comic-book high-level official could hold out either "Heather"/Vindicator or Mac/Guardian as the official, government-approved national super-hero. (1) Vindicator went into a residential neighborhood with a SWAT-team of armed goons---not to stun the legal-guardian-cousins and take Claire, that just wouldn't have been enough---but to kill them...and had a report with false statements by said goons already prepared. If a good lawyer can get Heather and her goon-squad off of something like this---even in a fictional world---then there's something far, far worse going on than a 40,000-year-old man trying to take over the world. [#4 ](2) Mac/Guardian rationalizes the bank-robbery with a monologue worthy of a super-villain, but doesn't provide proof of what the Unity regime is doing that would justify such a radical move. Moreover, Mac doesn't explain how stealing the money is going to stop Cody and his Unity regime [not THE MASTER and his Unity regime] when Cody is already seated as the PM and broadcasting things that substantiate his position.[#5 ]Here is why I don't hate the series: who but Alpha Flight's arch-nemesis could put them in a double-bind? Whether The Master's plan succeeds or fails, it's engineered to (1) take down "Heather" or Mac, or (2) take down "Heather" and Mac. Plus, taint the team and leave them without a leader. The Master takes out his own flunky (Cody)...presumably and unfortunately along with a whole lot of innocent people mixed in with the Unity regime. It's only after The Master has taken out Cody that Mac's forces strike. [#8 ] G/A-F Sedition? Revolution? Depends on who you're rebelling against. Just saying you want a revolution isn't bad in and of itself - we all want to change the world.Don't get me wrong. The Unity Regime needed to go, but...The book, however, didn't do enough for me to set up the evilness of the government. [...I agree, the series makes it seem that the people in the fictional Canada were mostly okay with what Cody was doing. And since most of the regular citizens weren't purple, I can't suspend disbelief that The Master could control enough of the nation to get Cody elected, simultaneously turn humans into 4-toed sycophants, build a spaceship under/in Parliament Hill, and control a Wendigo and a Ranark, all at the same time. The Master may be AF's arch-nemesis, but if he can do all of that....] They kept saying 'Mind control! Mind control!' ...Heather's actions - mitigated by mind control. But the writer wasn't.~ Le Messor"Gandhi had a sign reading: When you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper; and when you are in the wrong, you cannot afford to lose it."~ Chester Bowles
    Mr. Surviving-fictional-Canadian-high-ranking official, in the aftermath of the alien spacecraft that leveled Parliament Hill, who are Canada's premier protectors? Vindicator? Guardian? Who will defend the Great White North if a Great Beast shows up? Snowbird? Sasquatch? Shaman? Who can we depend on if more Plodex/Skrulls/under-sea barbarians come back? Aurora? Northstar? Marrina?
    Last edited by Garry/Al-Fan; 07-05-2023 at 01:18 PM.

  3. #3
    The Erie Canal Warrior Alpha Flight
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    Well as the ending showed, it was clearly overtly by the second to last page, saying that guardian, Sasquatch, aurora, North Star, Puck, Marrina, Shaman, and Snowbird would be the sanctioned alpha flight, while vindicator went off to raise Claire on her own. Yes it was never said in a word balloon, but the full page spread of that team seemed to indicate that would be the case.
    "like Warren Moon before he defected, a perfect spiral!" - Eugene Judd

  4. #4
    The Erie Canal Warrior Alpha Flight
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    I'll also be perfectly frank, I disagree with the limits your placing on the masters power, as I feel he does have that power to pull off, , particulalrly when you remember the immense fear the world was covered in from that asgardian serpent would have helped sway a fearful nation towards a fear monger like Gary Cody. I'd say more but a.) outside of the heather murdering her cousins and no remorse I have zero venom towards this series, so simply reading why others hate It is simply dissuading me from continuing to take part in this particular thread and b. I found out my essay is due five days earlier than when I initially thought so I can't procrastinate any longer!
    Last edited by Yankee; 04-11-2016 at 02:03 PM. Reason: auto correct
    "like Warren Moon before he defected, a perfect spiral!" - Eugene Judd

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee View Post
    Well as the ending showed, it was clearly overtly by the second to last page, saying that guardian, Sasquatch, aurora, North Star, Puck, Marrina, Shaman, and Snowbird would be the sanctioned alpha flight, while vindicator went off to raise Claire on her own. Yes it was never said in a word balloon, but the full page spread of that team seemed to indicate that would be the case.
    Even if what you say is true, what's the name used in Captain Marvel's new book? Even if what you say is true, were any members of the team formerly known as Alpha Flight exonerated, either by the Governor General or the new PM? Even if what you say is true, it isn't unreasonable to infer that what they did makes it difficult for an official to make an overt declaration that Guardian, Vindicator, Aurora, Northstar (!), Puck, Sasquatch, Snowbird, Shaman, and Marrina are still Canada's sanctioned/premier super-heroes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee View Post
    I'll also be perfectly frank, I disagree with the limits your placing on the masters power [you're entitled to your opinion. Have you started to figure out how many people it would take to get Cody elected, how much time it would take to complete the Unity process, how much energy and skill it would take to control a cannibal and a mystic who is an emissary of the Great Beasts, how many sycophants it takes to run the government and the internment camps, and how much raw material is needed to build a huge spaceship within/underneath Parliament Hill. I'm assuming (it takes) a lot (of time).], as I feel he does have that power to pull off, , particularly when you remember the immense fear the world was covered in from that asgardian serpent would have helped sway a fearful nation towards a fear monger like Gary Cody. I'd say more but a.) outside of the heather murdering her cousins and no remorse I have zero venom towards this series, so simply reading why others hate It is simply dissuading me from continuing to take part in this particular thread ["hate" is such a strong feeling and as I stated earlier---if you read it---I do not hate this arc. I reserve "hate" for something I truly and thoroughly despise, which is the Mantlo era. If you read the previews about the crossover in Amazing Heroes and Comics Feature and then read the Mantlo era, you may begin to see why I reserve such loathing for that period of Alpha Flight and no other] and b. I found out my essay is due five days earlier than when I initially thought so I can't procrastinate any longer!
    I'll miss ya.
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    Last edited by Garry/Al-Fan; 09-13-2020 at 07:30 PM.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee View Post
    Well as the ending showed, it was clearly overtly by the second to last page, saying that guardian, Sasquatch, aurora, North Star, Puck, Marrina, Shaman, and Snowbird would be the sanctioned alpha flight, while vindicator went off to raise Claire on her own. Yes it was never said in a word balloon, but the full page spread of that team seemed to indicate that would be the case.
    I think that was more a metaphor and a traditional super-hero splash page than a direct nod to any sanctioning.

    however...

    Quote Originally Posted by Garry/Al-Fan View Post
    Even if what you say is true, what's the name used in Captain Marvel's new book? Even if what you say is true, were any members of the team formerly known as Alpha Flight exonerated, either by the Governor General or the new PM? Even if what you say is true, it isn't unreasonable to infer that what they did makes it difficult for an official to make an overt declaration that Guardian, Vindicator, Aurora, Northstar (!), Puck, Sasquatch, Snowbird, Shaman, and Marrina are still Canada's sanctioned/premier super-heroes.
    They were back working for the Government in Red Hulk:Mayan Rule (which is set straight after Vol.4), and then in Amazing X-Men:World War Wendigo. Also, they were free to go to the US to attend Northstar & Kyle's wedding in between the above two storylines.
    So chances are they were exonerated.

    However however... On the other hand.... - the Government did restart Omega Flight and send them to deal with the Garden Origin Site infestation in Avengers, rather than Alpha Flight....
    Last edited by Phil; 04-11-2016 at 05:08 PM.

  7. #7
    The Old Fan Alpha Flight
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    Default I'd rather come up with a storyline I know I'd like

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil View Post
    I think that was more a metaphor and a traditional super-hero splash page than a direct nod to any sanctioning.
    (me, too. G/A-F)
    however...


    They were back working for the Government in Red Hulk:Mayan Rule (which is set straight after Vol.4), and then in Amazing X-Men:World War Wendigo. Also, they were free to go to the US to attend Northstar & Kyle's wedding in between the above two storylines.

    Chances are they were exonerated.

    However... to play devil's advocate - the Government did restart Omega Flight and send them to deal with the Garden Origin Site infestation in Avengers, rather than Alpha Flight....
    FULL DISCLOSURE: I do not have Red Hulk: Mayan Rule, Amazing X-Men: World War Wendigo, or Northstar & Kyle's wedding.
    Even if I had the money, if Alpha Flight volume 4 couldn't bother to tell what happened to 1 Wendigo(, Ranark, and an adamantium terrorist), why should I think that there's going to be a resolution with a whole army of Wendigoes?

    Whenever a new AF series comes out, there's a big frenzy to buy lots and lots of copies so it will sell well and be popular and give the characters lots of exposure and show MARVEL that AF has a solid group of supporters. And then, when the readers who actually care about the group cut back from buying umpteen copies of the same thing, the powers that be claim that the readership is dwindling, that AF doesn't have devoted supports, and the team isn't viable. I'm tired of playing that game.
    Last edited by Garry/Al-Fan; 07-11-2023 at 09:30 PM.

  8. #8
    The Erie Canal Warrior Alpha Flight
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil View Post
    I think that was more a metaphor and a traditional super-hero splash page than a direct nod to any sanctioning.

    however...


    They were back working for the Government in Red Hulk:Mayan Rule (which is set straight after Vol.4), and then in Amazing X-Men:World War Wendigo. Also, they were free to go to the US to attend Northstar & Kyle's wedding in between the above two storylines.
    So chances are they were exonerated.

    However however... On the other hand.... - the Government did restart Omega Flight and send them to deal with the Garden Origin Site infestation in Avengers, rather than Alpha Flight....
    Which reminds me, I'm getting an edition of world war wendigo trade on loan from my schools library so il let you know what I think. And Garry, you say you don't hate it, then fine you don't hate it, I mispoke. but to be fair, that makes me utterly terrified to read your review of mantalo or something else that you actually hated. I don't nessecairly like mantalo (after hobnell he was the weakest of the volume 1 writers) and their are many decisions he made I utterly hated ( creating persuasion, making heather care more about her boy toy then she did the rest of the team post bedlam, the utter insanity of having the dreamqueen and sorceror arcs occur right after each other with no time to breathe etc) but their were storylines and arcs I did like (the pestilence arc (I know controversial opinion) the puck Tibet two parter, Revamping box from Bochs to Jefferies, etc) and I'd rather not get angry reading your opinions on those. As much as you don't hate volume 4, the way you wrote about came off to me as unfair in many places and I'm only going to assume that my perception won't change reading your opinion on something you legitimately hate. Your welcome to your opinions, I just will choose not to read them from here on in. Best of luck to you though.
    "like Warren Moon before he defected, a perfect spiral!" - Eugene Judd

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