I guess they just used Alpha Flight to show that this was a major league menace. To build it up so the Avengers could take it down.
But it was a mistreatment of Alpha Flight. They deserved better.
I guess they just used Alpha Flight to show that this was a major league menace. To build it up so the Avengers could take it down.
But it was a mistreatment of Alpha Flight. They deserved better.
Richard Vasseur
Because you were right, nobody saw them get their hinies handed to them on a platter because it wasn't shown! Of course now the NA's will walk in and Cap A will hit the Collective with his shield and win the day.Originally Posted by Le Messor
Oh for the day that Alpha is shown to be that good.
Well, I finally actually 'read' the issue the other day... and I'm not entirely sure that it will play out as a typical "Hey look New Avengers here to save the day!/Cap hits it with his shield" scenario... the only reason I say this is because it is expressed within the comic that this is the typical thing to do... I think (at least some of) the New Avengers might get their collective butts (pun intended) kicked... especially Cap. I don't have the issue at hand, but the quote was something to the degree of "We have nothing to worry about, Captain America will save the day..." I don't know about that, but any time I hear that it means that individual is going to get slammed... we'll see... hopefully so... I like Cap, but he needs to get tossed around now and then.
The ability to defy death can be achieved...
It is a state acquired through compassion not greed...
Well I would like to see Alpha come back and save the Avengers but that is not going to happen. Sasquatch is stronger than Cage. Puck is in Cap's league at H2H. The team has waht it takes we just need a creative team working on them to bring it out.
Richard Vasseur
It's not that I hate Cap, it's that I hate how AF always seems to have such difficulty defeating a villain while any other hero/team will only need to "sling a shield" at the same bad guy and problem solved. If the NA's have a big drag down knock out fight with the Collective then good, but I have a feeling it's going to be scenes of Cap blocking energy blasts with his shield; Wolverine nearly being incinerated before healing; Cage getting hit full on but being able to withstand the attacks and Spiderman dodging anything that comes his way. Iron Man will analyze the mutant energies while all this is going on and will whip out a handy dandy mutant power dampener and zap the Big C (I mean the Collective) with it end o' story. At least that's what would usually happen and I have yet to see anything new from the "New" Avengers to make me feel otherwise.
Ooh ooh I know! Pick me. hahaha...
Then you need to check out some early, late 80's Avengers. The Masters of Evil arc for instance where they take over the Avengers mansion ... with Mr.Hyde pummeling poor Jarvis mercilessly before a bound and helpless Captain America. Or a few issue later when Zeus, ticked at what happened to Herc., decided to take it out on the Avengers. Cap's legs were shattered and he was next to useless for the showdown.
"Course, it was really neat to see the Black Knight armed with both his sword and Cap's shield.
Anyway, if Cap has become some sort of indestrctible super-hero-hero in the intervenig years .... blasphemy!!! Cap's lack of substantial power, and the sheer power of his fighting spirit is what makes Cap Cap. He needs to get tossed around .... frequently ... or he becomes, like, Thor or someone.
Oh, I'm not saying that he doesn't get tossed around, I'm just saying that now and then its good for him. It always makes for good stories when he gets pummeled a bit. But to be honest I don't see him getting whooped too hard right now as long as he keeps that name and costume... to hurt Cap might be unAmerican, and can you think of anything worse than that? But I always find Cap's victories when they happen alot more believable when he gets smacked really hard first. And the shield is an awesome thing if used properly, but overusage dampens its effects. Its not actually an awesome weapon, its an awesome visual plot device.
The ability to defy death can be achieved...
It is a state acquired through compassion not greed...
It may be a great visual plot device but it is also a great offensive and defensive weapon. Its ability to absorb energy upon impact makes it great for protection. And its hardness and sharp edges make it effective as a weapon.
Richard Vasseur
I'm not discounting it entirely... just saying that it isn't that great a weapon... there are tons of better options... I mean... a shield? Serves its purposes... but oh well. I just liked what they did with it more when I was younger... also, the dramatic hurling of the shield does get a little bit tired after a while.
The ability to defy death can be achieved...
It is a state acquired through compassion not greed...
A little tired thats like saying you get tired of Superman flying, or Spidey swinging. I remember Cap losing his shield the first thing I did was cancel my subscription to the comic. Like Cap said in the comic its like losing an arm. It is part of him. Without it he just isn't the same.
Better options, I cannot picture Cap with anything elase he just wouldn't be Cap without the shield. He tried stun discs for a while but that didn't work out.
Richard Vasseur
A little tired thats like saying you get tired of Superman flying, or Spidey swinging.
Um... I wouldn't really draw that comparison, seeing as both of those are more skills than anything else... and they at least provide diverse possibilities... and other options. Superman doesn't just fly, he also has (instert 200 powers of Superman here), and Spider-Man also uses his webs as weapons, not just as a means of transportation. And actually yes, I do get tired of them doing those things if thats all they do. Issues of Spidey just webslinging? Boring. And there have been plenty. I like it when they make the shield diverse, because it proves that they have creative abilities. But when Cap just keeps throwing the shield... I personally get bored. "Cap! Dramatically hurl your shield!"... and then what? Do it again? Don't get me wrong, it can be done right. I just rarely think it is.
I remember Cap losing his shield the first thing I did was cancel my subscription to the comic. Like Cap said in the comic its like losing an arm. It is part of him. Without it he just isn't the same.
Well that is a personal choice. And I'm not saying that the shield isn't cool or popular, its just been used a whole, whole lot. And occasionally, "losing an arm" is good for character development. He isn't the only one to have lost an integral part of him at some point or another.
Better options, I cannot picture Cap with anything elase he just wouldn't be Cap without the shield.
Well, people did say that Logan without the adamantium wouldn't be Wolverine... and he ran with that for a while. Course that all got pushed away... but change can be good. For a while. Then the bone gets tired as well. Change things up. *shrugs* But thats just me. I think that when Cap goes without the shield sometimes he gets to show other attributes that make him a hero. Cap to me is more than a shield.
He tried stun discs for a while but that didn't work out.
Well, I'm also not advocating a new signature weapon from him either. I just think that we could do without the constant hurling that is it. All I'm saying is that it could be done better, and that unless they use it properly, it shouldn't be so frequently used. To note, this isn't an argument that I've found unique to Cap's shield... if Batman just sat around throwing batarangs all day, it would get boring... he does more than just that... if Hulk, even weaponless, just sits around and smashes with abandon ever single minute, his title gets boring, a primary complaint I have had most of my life about the character... I also apply this to general characters as well... (unless Wolverine is being used properly, he shouldn't be used for instance, Dr. Strange unless properly used can be boring and hated as heck) I like creative characters and items, things that can be used variably... hence my fandom of Magic and Power Rings for one thing. And given other people's expressions "scenes of Cap blocking energy blasts with his shield; Wolverine nearly being incinerated before healing; Cage getting hit full on but being able to withstand the attacks and Spiderman dodging anything that comes his way. Iron Man will analyze the mutant energies while all this is going on and will whip out a handy dandy mutant power dampener and zap the Big C" I'm not entirely alone on the monotony that can come from some comics.
But, as I've said, its a personal thing. I think that the shield is tired and improperly used right now. I'm not interested. Others can choose to think differently.
The ability to defy death can be achieved...
It is a state acquired through compassion not greed...
To say Cap only uses his shield and thats al he does is so wrong. First and foremost when he is with a team or working with others is his ability to lead. Shield or no shield that is there and it is used more than his shield is.
Also if you have been reading Captain America as I have been. I can't even remember him throwing his shield. He might have but if he did it was certainly down played. And if has been very infrequent.
But Cap is a soldier and a soldier with a weapon will use it.
Richard Vasseur
To say Cap only uses his shield and thats al he does is so wrong. First and foremost when he is with a team or working with others is his ability to lead. Shield or no shield that is there and it is used more than his shield is.
*sigh* To me, that is all that Cap has been doing of late. Not always, but of late. I'm not claiming that the shield in throwing action is his only asset, but rather that it is an overplayed element of his character, as you yourself claim is the case. I have found that all Cap can do in what I have read recently is strike bold heroic moves and then launch the shield in some dramatic effect. I have not, in recent times, found him to be a capable leader or inspiring. In the past I can see how this might be a valid argument, but personally I don't think that currently is the case. Also, I was merely intending to point out the frequency with which the shield is used. One minute we have that Cap isn't Cap without the shield, the next we have that the shield isn't important, the next we have that the shield in an invaluable part of him... I'm sorry, at this point I'm just confused.
Also if you have been reading Captain America as I have been. I can't even remember him throwing his shield. He might have but if he did it was certainly down played. And if has been very infrequent.
Once again, perhaps just a result of personal choices and exposure. Obviously I am not as versed in recent Cap events, but in all appearances that I have read, namely the New Avengers comics which this thread is the subject of, I have seen his only true value being the occasinal pointless throwing of the shield. See a problem? Throw the shield. That is what I have seen.
But Cap is a soldier and a soldier with a weapon will use it.
An arguable statement, once again based on personal beliefs and preferences. When a soldier chooses not to use a weapon it is all the more significant when he chooses to. Also, I believe, personally, that the importance of Cap carrying a shield is that it is defensive, and non-offensive. Cap is a defender to me, a defender of the principles which he has subscribed to, and this is also why I believe the offensive use of the weapon should be somewhat limited.
In the end, all I'm trying to say is that I've got different preferences regarding Cap. I want to see Cap use his shield creatively. I want to see Cap be more than just a smack-em soldier boy. I want to see him as a virtuous and yet challenged hero. I'm not challenging Cap as a valid, worthy, enjoyable and potent hero... I'm just saying I want to read him in a way that is enjoyable to me. Can you really keep blaming me for that? I'm sure we've all had times when our heroes have been improperly written, or rather written so that they are not to our liking and thus find them no longer enjoyable. The Captain America who currently occupies the pages of comics no longer meets my liking, and as he has been an iconic hero since long before I was born, and I (as perhaps some many others) grew up with him as a personal hero... I just think that he could be done better.
The ability to defy death can be achieved...
It is a state acquired through compassion not greed...
I agree Captain America could be done better to especially in his own series. Although the one thing he needs in it is to use his shield a lot more. He is now being shown as more of just an average spy. He needs to be in costume more and in action.
In the New Avengers he is not being used as he should either he is getting put in the background instead of in the forfront. He needs to be shown more as the leader of the team. And shown using his shield more offensively and defensively.
Captain America has not been written the way he should be for a while now. It appears to be Marvel's way of updating the character. And in his own title the writer explained his actions are because of the Cosmic Cube being used to alter his personality but it is still going on and has been for way to long.
Richard Vasseur
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