The New DCU 52

[Alpha Rider]

Sort of like Spiderman and Wolverine?

Yeah but Marvel's second rate guys were always better than DCs. But Marvel always had the FF, Cap, Thor, Iron Man, Hulk, Spidy. These books outsold DCs books monthly.

[Flightpath07]

But, to be fair, i don't know that Thor has been all that hot of a seller for a while now (altho i am not sure of the exact numbers, i do know it got cancelled, rebooted, and then i beleive cancelled again, then rebooted again, all in the last decade or less).

Never read Captain America, personally. Don't even know anybody that reads Iron Man. Never been a Hulk fan, altho there are plenty who are, I am sure.

You're not including Spiderman in Marvel's "second rate guys", are you? lol.

And Fantastic Four hardly counts, now that it is just another Spiderman book.

My point was, the vehicle that makes Marvel go, is, for the most part, Wolverine and Spiderman.

It may not have always been that way, but it is now.

[Alpha Rider]

But, to be fair, i don't know that Thor has been all that hot of a seller for a while now (altho i am not sure of the exact numbers, i do know it got cancelled, rebooted, and then i beleive cancelled again, then rebooted again, all in the last decade or less).

Never read Captain America, personally. Don't even know anybody that reads Iron Man. Never been a Hulk fan, altho there are plenty who are, I am sure.

You're not including Spiderman in Marvel's "second rate guys", are you? lol.

And Fantastic Four hardly counts, now that it is just another Spiderman book.

My point was, the vehicle that makes Marvel go, is, for the most part, Wolverine and Spiderman.

It may not have always been that way, but it is now.

Marvel has more staple guys than DC. The first wave of 60's books Thor, Hulk, Iron Man, Captain America, FF, the Avengers. These books are what made Marvel. All the other books that fallowed were always the 2nd rate guys. These books had various degree of popularity throughout there history. I remember in the late 70's that Spiderman and Hulk were the big two for Marvel.

The Avengers are the JLA but at least Marvel dosen't have their flagship guy (Spiderman) leading the team. JLA has Superman calling all the shots, or Batman.
DC milks Batman like a cow. How many Elseworld books have Batman in it? How many Bat titles a month do they have? Spidy only had 1 title till '76 when Spetacular Spiderman, the in '88 with Web of Spiderman, and '90 with Spiderman. I don't know about now.

Wolverine was to be a throuw away charater who fought the Hulk, and got picked up by the X-Men and was going to be shoved aside for Night Crawler to take the center stage, and Wolverine would have been off the team. However Clairmount and Byrne reinvented the guy and the rest is history. But Wolverine's popularity didn't come until the late 80's earliy 90's and got over X-posed.

DC always seem to count on Sups, Bats and Wonder Woman, not so much. evryone else at DC is 2nd rate guys. The Flash, Green Lantern, Hawkman, and evrything else never seem to cut it (for me at least).

[Jason Eberly]

The Avengers are the JLA but at least Marvel dosen't have their flagship guy (Spiderman) leading the team. JLA has Superman calling all the shots, or Batman.

Martian Manhunter has had long stints as JL leader as well, and, to me, quite often been the centerpiece of the team through many of its incarnations.

DC milks Batman like a cow. How many Elseworld books have Batman in it? How many Bat titles a month do they have? Spidy only had 1 title till '76 when Spetacular Spiderman, the in '88 with Web of Spiderman, and '90 with Spiderman. I don't know about now.

Don't forget Marvel Team-Up, which started in the early 70's and ended to make way for Web of Spider-Man, which actually started in either late '84 or early '85, and was replaced in I think it was '94 or 95 with Sensational Spider-Man, which ended in '98 with the Spider-Man relaunch. Wow...what a run-on sentence.

Wolverine was to be a throuw away charater who fought the Hulk, and got picked up by the X-Men and was going to be shoved aside for Night Crawler to take the center stage, and Wolverine would have been off the team. However Clairmount and Byrne reinvented the guy and the rest is history. But Wolverine's popularity didn't come until the late 80's earliy 90's and got over X-posed.

I'd have to say Wolverine's popularity soared more in the early 80's, especially with the Wolverine limited series by Frank Miller in '82.

DC always seem to count on Sups, Bats and Wonder Woman, not so much. evryone else at DC is 2nd rate guys. The Flash, Green Lantern, Hawkman, and evrything else never seem to cut it (for me at least).

Well, DC has made a huge push to make the Green Lantern family very prominent the last few years, and they now have four books in the new DCU (GL, GL Corps, GL: The New Guardians, and Red Lanterns). That's the same number as the Superman family right now.

[DaVeO]

You have to remember that DC only really has two books: Superman and Batman, everything else is either 2nd or 3rd class charaters. Don't get me wrong, things like the Flash, Green Lantern and Wonder Woman sell, but not to the extent of Sups and Bats.

Actually it's more like Batman, Superman, Green Lantern are the top tire books and have been for sometime. GL has been in top 20 overall books I think since Geoff Johns brought back Hal Jordan.

I WAS going to just go with all my regulars too but then I thought, what the hell. If DC is willing to switch it up then why not me? So I'm not going with ANY of my regular titles except Batwoman.

Pull List
Batwoman
Animal Man
Swamp Thing
Stormwatch
Grifter
Voodoo
Frankenstein Agent of S.H.A.D.E.
JSA (when it returns)
I,Vampire (Yeah I know, but I just saw the preview art and read an interview have to try it once at least)
Justice League Dark
And ALL digital! I have too many boxes and not enough storage space.

[Flightpath07]

But DC's villains are much more prominent, well-known/loved, than Marvel's. How can Marvel villains ever rival the popularity of Joker, Penguin, Catwoman, Bizarro Superman, Poison Ivy, and Lex Luthor?

I would also have to agree with the comments about the Martian Manhumter having often played prominent roles.

Really, DC's Big Three has become DC's Big Four, with the push for Green Lantern in the last decade or two. And in reality, of those four, Wonder Woman is the one who cannot seem to make it in her own title very well - she needs the other three much more than they need her.

[DIGGER]

But DC's villains are much more prominent, well-known/loved, than Marvel's. How can Marvel villains ever rival the popularity of Joker, Penguin, Catwoman, Bizarro Superman, Poison Ivy, and Lex Luthor?

I would also have to agree with the comments about the Martian Manhumter having often played prominent roles.

Really, DC's Big Three has become DC's Big Four, with the push for Green Lantern in the last decade or two. And in reality, of those four, Wonder Woman is the one who cannot seem to make it in her own title very well - she needs the other three much more than they need her.

Those villians have had the good fortune (except for Bizzaro and Poison Ivy) of having been on t.v. or in a movie at some point in time before Marvels villains so it seems to me they have an advantage.

DIGGER

[DaVeO]

Marvel has more staple guys than DC. The first wave of 60's books Thor, Hulk, Iron Man, Captain America, FF, the Avengers. These books are what made Marvel. All the other books that fallowed were always the 2nd rate guys. These books had various degree of popularity throughout there history. I remember in the late 70's that Spiderman and Hulk were the big two for Marvel.

What is your point here? Do you just mean they have more longer running books?

The Avengers are the JLA but at least Marvel dosen't have their flagship guy (Spiderman) leading the team. JLA has Superman calling all the shots, or Batman.

This was the point of the JLA though, to have the Big Guns fighting the big threats. JLA came out in 1960 starting in Brave and the Bold. In 1963 The Avengers debut with their Big Guns. I don't see what point you were making with your statement. Spider-Man wasn't in the Avengers, no, but then he was never that kind of character, until now apparently. Who would let a teenager lead Earth's Mightiest Heroes? By the way, in the early days of the League, Superman and Batman were hardly in it. As to why they later took on the mantle of chairperson. It just made sense as to their skills. Batman was the brains and Superman was inspirational. The same reason Iron Man and Captain America were mainly the de facto leader of Avengers.

DC milks Batman like a cow. How many Elseworld books have Batman in it? How many Bat titles a month do they have? Spidy only had 1 title till '76 when Spetacular Spiderman, the in '88 with Web of Spiderman, and '90 with Spiderman. I don't know about now.

Kind of an unfair vantage point. You seem to be comparing Batman titles out now with Spider-Man titles from the 70's to the 90's. Remember that Amazing Spider-Man is three times a month. Spider-Man is also on two Avengers teams, the FF, has a big event going on with Spider Island... I think Marvel milks Spider-Man just fine as well. Don't even get me started on X-Men.

Yeah but Marvel's second rate guys were always better than DCs. But Marvel always had the FF, Cap, Thor, Iron Man, Hulk, Spidy. These books outsold DCs books monthly.

That's a matter of personal opinion.

[Flightpath07]

I think Marvel milks Spider-Man just fine as well. Don't even get me started on X-Men.

We think alike on these points, for sure!

[Le Messor]

All the other books that fallowed were always the 2nd rate guys.

And they have indeed been lying fallow for quite some time...
(Sorry... don't normally like to point out spelling mistakes, but that one gave a hilarious (if you're me) double-meaning.)

I'd have to say Wolverine's popularity soared more in the early 80's, especially with the Wolverine limited series by Frank Miller in '82.

Correction: Drawn by Miller, but written by Claremont.

- Le Messor
"I'd love to, but there's a disturbance in the Force."

[Legerd]

Animal Man #1: Great characterization, starts out very everyday superhero comic then flips the concept on its head and dives into horror.

Agreed, which is why I picked it up too. Also grabbed JLI to get a look at DC's international heroes. Very disappointed they didn't bother to throw a Canadian character in here.

[Flightpath07]

Very disappointed they didn't bother to throw a Canadian character in here

Well, I'm glad you used the word disappointed, and not surprised.

[Alpha Rider]

Martian Manhunter has had long stints as JL leader as well, and, to me, quite often been the centerpiece of the team through many of its incarnations.

Maybe so, but anytime I looked at JLA, it was Sups, and Bats calling the shots. So I am going by what I have seen.


Don't forget Marvel Team-Up, which started in the early 70's and ended to make way for Web of Spider-Man, which actually started in either late '84 or early '85, and was replaced in I think it was '94 or 95 with Sensational Spider-Man, which ended in '98 with the Spider-Man relaunch. Wow...what a run-on sentence.

I forgot about that one.

I'd have to say Wolverine's popularity soared more in the early 80's, especially with the Wolverine limited series by Frank Miller in '82.

True, but I feel it was more towards the later 80's when guys like the Punisher were getting popular; the darker charaters.


Well, DC has made a huge push to make the Green Lantern family very prominent the last few years, and they now have four books in the new DCU (GL, GL Corps, GL: The New Guardians, and Red Lanterns). That's the same number as the Superman family right now.

Marvel did the same with Ghost Rider back in the 90's with Ghost Rider, Spirits of Vengeance, MCP, and the Midnight Sons tieins (Mrobius, Darhold, & Night Stalkers)
Not to forget the Original Ghost Rider Riders Again (reprint of the last 14 books) + The Original Ghost Rider (reprints from Marvel Spot Light to GR 12 when it got canned) This effect is called the "Umbrella effect" where you get a popular charater and have multipule titles and have cross overs every summer with the ocasional guess apperance.

[Alpha Rider]

And they have indeed been lying fallow for quite some time...
(Sorry... don't normally like to point out spelling mistakes, but that one gave a hilarious (if you're me) double-meaning.)

- Le Messor
"I'd love to, but there's a disturbance in the Force."

If anyone would have caught the double meaning it would be you. And yes it is a double meaning.

[DaVeO]

Well, I'm glad you used the word disappointed, and not surprised.

I don't know where the rumour started but I just read in a Newsarama review about JLI, that Booster himself may in fact be Canadian.

Here is the quote by reviewer Edward Kaye:
"We now have a UN-sanctioned team, with each team member hailing from a different county. The team is headed up by Booster Gold (who is rumored to be Canadian now), and is based out of the Hall of Justice."