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Thread: Wolverine #304 (2012) - Return of an Alpha Flight member

  1. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Messor View Post
    I don't know. It's something I've only heard about.

    Comics writers don't seem to get, though, that there are people who *gasp* don't have sex! And if anybody would wait until marriage, it's Rahne, who's always been a stereotyped repressed character.
    I don't think it's even that. I think they just thought it would be an interesting way to torture the character. I'm pretty sure it happened in X-Force or something, when Rahne left X-Factor for awhile. I'm pretty sketchy on the details. She had sex with a wolf god basically, an old friend from her New Mutants days who wanted her to not be fearful or hateful of her powers... though, uh, wasn't she already past that? And how does knocking up the very very conservative Catholic girl help the situation? Then she had to worry about not only her soul but weather or not giving birth to a demigod would kill her in the process, etc. I need to find out which writer did that to her so he can go on my 'do not read' list.

    It was bad enough when Moira, another favorite character of mine, was killed off just to make Rahne into a bitter angsty biker chick or some stupid ****. Another plot I'm sketchy on the details of, but seriously Why? Just why...?


    Thank you! I've felt marginalised by comics for a long time (but I'm Christian, and therefore biased - it's kind of vindicating for me when people without that bias seem to agree).

    - Le Messor
    "Ignoranus: A person who's both stupid and an *******"
    I'm sure I'm not the only one.

    I want characters to have different perspectives coming from different cultural and religious backgrounds. That creates a world that is deep and diverse and believable. I loved Rahne because she was this oppressed abused little girl who was strong enough not to let what was done to her change her heart or what she believes in her heart. She was an example of what a good Christian should be. She always tried to follow her religion strictly, and always tried to be a moral voice. Yet she never was the sort to cast the first stone, denigrate other's beliefs they hold just as dear, or preach damnation. Presumably she knew what it was like to have faith wielded as a weapon against you, and would not use it to cut others down. Even David gets this wrong now, as good as he is, and makes her sound like some backwater Born Again Fundamentalist. She's pretty much not even the same character. It sucks so bad.

    I loved that there was this character who was so chaste and traditional, but totally relateable. I didn't even see her as sexually oppressed, because I could understand where she was coming from and respect her for it. It's not like she didn't think about boys, romance, how she's percieved by the opposite sex... she was actually very normal in New Mutants thru X-Factor v1 with regards to that. She simply didn't believe in frivolousness or sex outside of wedlock. What a novel idea. I really enjoyed that.

    Marvel and their writers are in a death spiral of self-influence and market analysis of an increasingly a small fan base who are becoming reduced to a small demographic who are satisfied with more of the same. Just look at AF v4. Formulaic.


    Sypes, can you link me? I want in, if you don't mind, that is.
    "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me thrice, you must be Marvel."
    -FlightPath07 Don't you feel all important now?

  2. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by EccentricSage View Post
    It would be amazing.

    And I do have to call him out on making her seem religiously intolerant what with her 'you're going to hell for being gay' bit, which was OOC. This girl has met how many gods besides the one she warships? She used to always worry about sinfulness, but believed in a loving god and redemption, and was respectful of others' lifestyles. She loved her powers and talked about how she wanted to turn into a wolf and leave society forever in New Mutants.
    That is quite different than how I remember Rahne back in the New Mutants days. While perhaps not intolerant, she was definitely judgemental. Plus, while she have met many gods, but I don't believe she ever believed them to be any relation to (her) God. I also remember her saying/thinking that the beast within her and the urges she felt condemned her, and that she was cursed. Of course, this wasn't helped by what's-his-name...Reverent Craemer? The fire and brimstone priest that raised her.

    Of course, I haven't read any of the old New Mutants in about 20 years, so I may be misremembering.

    But I do agree that her getting pregnant? Way out of character. Of course, I knew several religious girls (one of them a pastor's daughter) in high school who became "out of character" themselves.

  3. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Eberly View Post
    That is quite different than how I remember Rahne back in the New Mutants days. While perhaps not intolerant, she was definitely judgemental. Plus, while she have met many gods, but I don't believe she ever believed them to be any relation to (her) God. I also remember her saying/thinking that the beast within her and the urges she felt condemned her, and that she was cursed. Of course, this wasn't helped by what's-his-name...Reverent Craemer? The fire and brimstone priest that raised her.

    Of course, I haven't read any of the old New Mutants in about 20 years, so I may be misremembering.

    But I do agree that her getting pregnant? Way out of character. Of course, I knew several religious girls (one of them a pastor's daughter) in high school who became "out of character" themselves.
    She dealt with those feelings early on, yes, due to Reverand Craig. I remember her bringing up that things are 'sinful', but she never condemned her friends... she was a socially awkward religious girl expressing her fear of sin. She did strugle with her feelings about her powers again in X-Factor a couple of times... one being when she was turned into a sort of mutate trapped part way in wolf form in Genoshia, the other when she got carried away in a battle and accidentaly killed her target. But she had the moral support of her friends and Moira, and recovered from those situations. In Excalibre she confronted Reverend Craig about what he did to her, how she strugled with her self esteme and fear of damnation because of him, and what an evil hypocrit he is for using her love of God to hurt her. She made him cry. It was a really great issue, without resorting to violence and shock factor.

    So what does Marvel do? They take away her support structure and cook up fresh new horrors to subject her to, including mind control and canibalism (it is implied she ate Reverand Craig), so that they can make her an edgy character who doesn't hesitate to kill and so that they can re-hash her fear for her soul and spiritual insicurity all over again, even though that was dealt with and resolved a long time ago.

    I know religious people can change, but Rahne was a unique and possitive character who was taken away from us to be turned into a typical bitter feral mutant with violent urges, beast within, already damned, yadda yadda yadda. If they wanted a guy struggling with canibalism and violent urges, etc, the writers had guys like Wildchild who has been needing to deal with what he is. Why do that to Rahne?
    "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me thrice, you must be Marvel."
    -FlightPath07 Don't you feel all important now?

  4. #79
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    Be reasonable! You can't expect Marvel to have reasonable characters acting in different, non-generic ways, can you?

    Each and every one has to be edgy and cool, so you can tell the edgy and cool ones by the oh look a distraction!

    - Le Messor
    Xander: I'll have you know I was just accosted by some kind of, uh, locker monster.
    Giles: Loch Ness Monster?
    Buffy: Locker. Monster. Is what he said.

  5. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Messor View Post
    Be reasonable! You can't expect Marvel to have reasonable characters acting in different, non-generic ways, can you?

    Each and every one has to be edgy and cool, so you can tell the edgy and cool ones by the oh look a distraction!
    Or equally DC or Image etc...

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil View Post
    Or equally DC or Image etc...
    Exactly! We have Liefeld and Lee in charge at DC now, for example. I mean, is this not the 90s?

    - Le Messor
    "I'll tell ya, life aint easy for a boy named Sue!"

  7. #82

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    Is Liefeld still associated with DC? I know his Hawk and Dove series apparently ended there. And since he is now back drawing the Youngblood series at Image...
    Support Artists, Not Companies! Creator-owned comics are where the real art is at!

    My new website! http://lifelessordinarywebnovel.com/home.html Follow my super-powered web-novel adventures, "Life Less Ordinary"!

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    Also 'occasionally' ranting Alpha Flight related stuff at http://canadas-own-the-flight.blogspot.com/

  8. #83

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    Isn't he writing three DC books now?

    Dana
    ALPHA FLIGHT IS RESURRECTED, LONG LIVE ALPHA FLIGHT!

  9. #84

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    Yup, he's writing 3, Scott Lobdell's writing 3, Howard Mackie's writing 1 and all because Bob Harras is over there now.

  10. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by cmdrkoenig67 View Post
    Isn't he writing three DC books now?

    Dana
    Sorry, i was not aware of that (or more likely, knew it once but forgot it).

    I'm taking it Michael's line about Liefeld running DC was more tongue-in-cheek, then? I was taking it at face value, and knowing that he is writing for Image, it made me scratch my head and go "eh?"
    Support Artists, Not Companies! Creator-owned comics are where the real art is at!

    My new website! http://lifelessordinarywebnovel.com/home.html Follow my super-powered web-novel adventures, "Life Less Ordinary"!

    Twitter (1) = @RealWyldeChild
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    Also 'occasionally' ranting Alpha Flight related stuff at http://canadas-own-the-flight.blogspot.com/

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flightpath07 View Post
    I'm taking it Michael's line about Liefeld running DC was more tongue-in-cheek, then?
    Yes.

    But then I accidentally bit down, hard. Ouch!

    - Le Messor
    "Many become brave when brought to bay."
    ~ Norwegian proverb

  12. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Messor View Post
    Yes.

    But then I accidentally bit down, hard. Ouch!

    - Le Messor
    "Many become brave when brought to bay."
    ~ Norwegian proverb
    You should really leave tongue-piercing to the professionals!
    Support Artists, Not Companies! Creator-owned comics are where the real art is at!

    My new website! http://lifelessordinarywebnovel.com/home.html Follow my super-powered web-novel adventures, "Life Less Ordinary"!

    Twitter (1) = @RealWyldeChild
    Twitter (2) = @lifewebnovel

    FaceBook = https://www.facebook.com/realwylde.child or search for me at " Life Less-Ordinary "

    Also 'occasionally' ranting Alpha Flight related stuff at http://canadas-own-the-flight.blogspot.com/

  13. #88
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    Ywah, vur it'a ao muxh xhwapwe rhia qay.

  14. #89

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    It's kinda connected to this thread and something we talked about at some point, and I don't quite think it warrants it's own thread:-

    S

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    There's a Sasquatch floating head cameo in this week's Wolverine #312 as Loeb cotues his Lupine/Canine/Feral plotline...

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil View Post
    S

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    S

    There's a Sasquatch floating head cameo in this week's Wolverine #312 as Loeb cotues his Lupine/Canine/Feral plotline...
    Didn't somebody say they were trying to fix that now?
    I hope so.

    - Le Messor
    "In a mature society, "civil servant" is semantically equivalent to "civil master."
    ~ Robert A. Heinlein, The Notebooks of Lazarus Long

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