Hulk - Mayan Rule

[Le Messor]

As FP says, Walter is immune to the effects meaning they don't harm him, but having experimented on himself he'd surely give off rats in human form?

Just because your immune to radiation doesnt mean you emit radiation.

K-M, it looks ambiguous, but that's not what Phil was saying. He's saying that it's because Walt's immune and and was exposed that he'd give off rads. (Not rats in human form; I believe that's Carrion, and he lives in New York.)

My question is not so much 'is there a connection between Walt / Sas and gamma radiation?' as 'do they say or imply that Sasquatch was created by gamma radiation, and is one of the gamma creatures like Hulk, Doc Sampson, The Leader, or the Abomination?' 'Did he then turn orange because Byrne was such a genius that he foresaw the time when green would no longer exist in comics, and orange was the only colour in the medium?'

- Le Messor
"There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about."
~ Oscar Wilde

[-K-M-]

I get what he is saying, he says there is a gamma connection and there really is not

Not once has it shown Walter emits radiation and we only saw the one time he tested on himself to replicate the procedure. Yet we never saw a time before or after where he was exposed to radiation. So to say he emit gamma radiation is a stretch.

Yes they said that as why he was orange due to the canadian atmosphere, but as noted he was wrong. He didn't know he opened a door for a mystical creture to power him until later

[Legerd]

If you go by Vol. 4 though gamma radiation is the means by which Walter activates the transformation into Sasquatch, so there is some kind of connection. Whether he would have enough radiation within his cells to merit attention by the Mayan gods is another thing.

[Phil]

K-M, it looks ambiguous, but that's not what Phil was saying. He's saying that it's because Walt's immune and and was exposed that he'd give off rads. (Not rats in human form; I believe that's Carrion, and he lives in New York.)

Indeed. Thanks for understanding my ramblings.
And grr for autocorrect on my phone. I meant rays.

I get what he is saying, he says there is a gamma connection and there really is not

There is undeniably a gamma connection to Walt/Sasquatch.
In Byrne's original Sasquatch origin story in Volume 1 he recreates Banner's accident and submits himself to gamma rays.
FACT.
Walt + Gamma = Connection.
Not a retcon that Greg Pak/Jeff Parker have pulled out of their asses.

Nowhere did I say that Sasquatch was a result of Gamma mutation or a Gamma beast, simply that his origin on this earth involving Walt was connected to Gamma experimentation.

'Connection' being the key word I carefully chose and used.
Heather & Mac have a connection to Woverine. Does this mean they have adamantium claws and a healing factor? No, but they have a connection.
In the same way had Walt never experimented with Gamma rays he would never have opened the portal linking him to Tanaraq.
No Gamma Rays = No Sasquatch.
Connection.

Not once has it shown Walter emits radiation and we only saw the one time he tested on himself to replicate the procedure. Yet we never saw a time before or after where he was exposed to radiation. So to say he emit gamma radiation is a stretch.

That was something I was hypothesizing about after YOU brought up emitting gamma, so yeah that's fine.
However, nowhere has it been said/shown that he doesn't emit them, so we have nothing in canon either way.

He didn't know he opened a door for a mystical creture to power him until later

Again, opened by the Gamma rays. Connection.

If you go by Vol. 4 though gamma radiation is the means by which Walter activates the transformation into Sasquatch, so there is some kind of connection.

There is that, but I was simply focusing on Byrne's origin.

Whether he would have enough radiation within his cells to merit attention by the Mayan gods is another thing.

Yeah, again, that was me just flowing with this thread.

Looking at the line that's started this whole thing:

...Yet we have almost all we need now. And you brought them. ... The Gamma Race has been instrumental in our return here

it can be taken several ways, and I was never actually defending the line.

[-K-M-]

If you go by Vol. 4 though gamma radiation is the means by which Walter activates the transformation into Sasquatch, so there is some kind of connection. Whether he would have enough radiation within his cells to merit attention by the Mayan gods is another thing.

*sigh* Clearly you guys are not getting what I'm saying. As I said earlier, "I feel the whole Sasquatch/Tanaraq connection is being ignored for a more gamma radiation orgin". The writers are ignoring the Tanaraq connection and going with the gamma radiation route as prior to AF vol.4 he is and was powered by magic. Hence why Talisman could manipulate him several times and as noted by other mystical sensistive characters could sense Walter. Not once did someone comment on his gamma radiation connection prior to the mystical reveal, nor did it ever say he was gamma radiation dependent.

Also add to the fact he is in Snowbird's body, a body that did not even go through the gamma radiation experiment.

This is a retcon.

[Le Messor]

*sigh* Clearly you guys are not getting what I'm saying. As I said earlier, "I feel the whole Sasquatch/Tanaraq connection is being ignored for a more gamma radiation orgin".

I don't think we are, we're just saying that he could still have gamma radiation in his body. And trying to make sense of the comic (which I haven't read yet, I'm just trying to reconcile what's being said on this thread; I could be missing pertinent details because of it).
Walter bombarded himself with gamma during his origin; which is different to your examples above. It could still be there (at least, the way it works in the MU, it could). Nobody here is saying that's what made Sasquatch, just that it's still in his system. Which hasn't been mentioned before, because why would it?

Also add to the fact he is in Snowbird's body, a body that did not even go through the gamma radiation experiment.

Now that is completely true and shows sloppy research by the writers.

- Le Messor
"If you think squash is a competitive activity, try flower arranging."
~ Alan Bennett

[-K-M-]

I don't think we are, we're just saying that he could still have gamma radiation in his body. And trying to make sense of the comic (which I haven't read yet, I'm just trying to reconcile what's being said on this thread; I could be missing pertinent details because of it).
Walter bombarded himself with gamma during his origin; which is different to your examples above. It could still be there (at least, the way it works in the MU, it could). Nobody here is saying that's what made Sasquatch, just that it's still in his system. Which hasn't been mentioned before, because why would it?

Now that is completely true and shows sloppy research by the writers.

- Le Messor
"If you think squash is a competitive activity, try flower arranging."
~ Alan Bennett

and other characters bombared themeselves with magic (such as Iron Man) but does that mean he have a magical connection? No. As noted all the gamma rays did was open the door for Walter to gain the powers of Tanaraq. Radation eventually decays and wouldn't constantly remain especially with someone that has a healing factor. Look at Wolverine and the amount of radiation he has been exposed to, but he does not emit radiation or have radiation in his system

[-K-M-]

Sweet you ignored what I said really. Yes Bryne made a "connection", but the connection as NOTED even by Bryne himself the gamma radiation opened a gateway it did NOT manipulate or modify him directly. Nor does gamma radiation course through him, nor is gamma radiation emitted from Walter or Sasquatch nor was gamma radiation refered to again after it was revealed what Walter thought he did during the experiment was in fact wrong and nor did Walter's current body even go through the gamma radiation experiment making it all trivial.

Following that logic if an energy source is used to open up a doorway such as how Shaman opened up a gateway to the realm of the beasts with magic that means Vindicator, Aurora, etc. all have magical connection then? No. Mr.Fantastic opens gatways to the Negative zone is he powered by that? No. Gamma radiation was the key to open the door, Sasquatch, nor Tanaraq are powered by it their powered by magic as noted. The connection your holding on to is a vague connection and not that strong and prior to Vol.4 was not referenced of Walter being gamma radiation depended.

If you want to nitpick my word use of cameo earlier, Im doing the exact same thing to you now.

[Phil]

Yes Bryne made a "connection", but the connection as NOTED even by Bryne himself the gamma radiation opened a gateway it did NOT manipulate or modify him directly.

I never once said it did manipulate or modify him.

Nor does gamma radiation course through him, nor is gamma radiation emitted from Walter or Sasquatch

And you were the one who brought up emitting.

and nor did Walter's current body even go through the gamma radiation experiment making it all trivial.

Which is something I mentioned, in agreement.

Following that logic if an energy source is used to open up a doorway such as how Shaman opened up a gateway to the realm of the beasts with magic that means Vindicator, Aurora, etc. all have magical connection then? No.

They do in that regards though.
They have been exposed to magic.
Compared to a normal human being in the Marvel Universe they have a stronger connection to magic, having experienced it.

Mr.Fantastic opens gatways to the Negative zone is he powered by that? No.

Again, nowhere have I said Sasquatch is powered by Gamma.
Mr Fantastic is however now connected to the Negative Zone.

Gamma radiation was the key to open the door

Which is the connection I mentioned that I really really regret doing.

Sasquatch, nor Tanaraq are powered by it their powered by magic as noted.

I totally agree, and have never stated otherwise.

The connection your holding on to is a vague connection and not that strong and prior to Vol.4 was not referenced of Walter being gamma radiation depended.

That's true, it's vague and not often referenced but it exists hence I understand it.
Nowhere did I say I liked it, merely that I understand it.

If you want to nitpick my word use of cameo earlier, Im doing the exact same thing to you now.

I didn't once nitpick.
I said that "I" wouldn't call it a cameo.
Meaning me, myself and I.
My opinion.
You can call it a cameo, I call it something else. Hell, I can call it a blue bouncing banana if I want.
Nowhere did I say that you were wrong to call it a cameo.

Why is it that suddenly this place has become somewhere that I can't express my opinion?
Your initial post asked for my(/our) thoughts and when I give them to you you jump down my throat telling me I'm wrong.

All gamma radiation did was open a door for a mystical force to walk through, that's the extent of the connection.

Which is the only thing I've been saying from the start.

Forget emiting gamma, forget gamma powered, forget gamma beast, forget gamma origin. I never said any of those things originally.

Sasquatch's gamma connection makes sense so I can overlook the possessed-again-ness of it all.

Key words being "connection" and "I can overlook"

Again, I meaning me and only me alone. If I'm the only person in the world who overlooks it then so be it.
I'm not making it law or forcing it upon anyone else.

Can we just agree to disagree and leave it at that extent of a connection as you've mentioned above.

[Le Messor]

Again, I meaning me and only me alone. If I'm the only person in the world who overlooks it then so be it.
I'm not making it law or forcing it upon anyone else.

It's not just you.

I've understood what you've been saying - and what you haven't - all along; sorry if I haven't made my support clear.

- Mik
"It makes all the difference whether you hear an insect in the garden or in the bedroom."
~ Robert Lynd

[cmdrkoenig67]

I could totally be recalling this wrong, but I thought Snowbird had indicated (in issue #23 of Volume 1) that the Sasquatch form was a new being and not Tanaraq's true form (and since this new being was born in Canada she was able to take its shape)? I always thought that Sasquatch was a combo of a gamma mutated human and Tanaraq's spirit which came through the portal created by Langkowski's experiment? So he is actually a combo of science and magic?

Dana

[-K-M-]

I could totally be recalling this wrong, but I thought Snowbird had indicated (in issue #23 of Volume 1) that the Sasquatch form was a new being and not Tanaraq's true form (and since this new being was born in Canada she was able to take its shape)? I always thought that Sasquatch was a combo of a gamma mutated human and Tanaraq's spirit which came through the portal created by Langkowski's experiment? So he is actually a combo of science and magic?

Dana

That was the original belief, but that was changed when they learnt more. As noted the gamma radiation smashed the gateways for the Beasts to enter. At that time Snowbird did not know much of what was going on and didn't even know Walter had a connection to Tanaraq. We have seen Snowbird take the form of 3 Great Beasts in total, she was mistaken as was Walter beliving he gained his powers through gamma radiation alone.

[cmdrkoenig67]

But do we know for a fact that Sasquatch has Tanaraq's powers or are they merely the powers this avatar form has? Do we even know for a fact that Tanaraq had a physical form or did he just influence the form that Langkowski's experiment created so he could inhabit it? There seems to be still a few questions left unanswered where Tanaraq and Sasquatch are concerned.

BTW: Snowbird being able to transform into Great Beasts is a retcon too, isn't it? She originally could only transform into Native canadian beings and animals, then later she was free to transform into any animal native to Earth (later in Volume 1). As she said in volume 1, she could transform into the Sasquatch form because it was a native-born Canadian creature...Tanaraq is not, as he and the Great Beasts are extra-dimensional beings.

Snowbird being able to transform into Neooqtoq and Tundra are retcons, AFAIK (since they are aliens, unless of course, they were both somehow born on Earth or perhaps their forms are Earthly avatars that she can become?).

Dana

[-K-M-]

But do we know for a fact that Sasquatch has Tanaraq's powers or are they merely the powers this avatar form has? Do we even know for a fact that Tanaraq had a physical form or did he just influence the form that Langkowski's experiment created so he could inhabit it? There seems to be still a few questions left unanswered where Tanaraq and Sasquatch are concerned.

Dana

Indeed, it's mentioned in the bios he is class 90 in his base form but can draw on more strength by tapping more into Tanaraq. In the bio it also says, "Langwoski's soul later animated Snowbird's body granting him idential powers as Tanaraq's form".

[cmdrkoenig67]

Sorry I edited my post so much...LOL. I added a lot (about Snowbird) to it after I posted it.

Dana