Sorry I edited my post so much...LOL. I added a lot (about Snowbird) to it after I posted it.
Dana
Sorry I edited my post so much...LOL. I added a lot (about Snowbird) to it after I posted it.
Dana
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I actually used to wonder if Wanda (cringe) would theoretically be able to transform into other animals/creatures like Snowbird could, but s/he just didn't know how to? That s/he was only able to turn into Sasquatch because that's all s/he knew and Snowbird's body was able to take that form?
ALPHA FLIGHT IS RESURRECTED, LONG LIVE ALPHA FLIGHT!
Yes, it's a retcon. Retcons happen there is no denying it. Im not against them, but as I said I feel their ignoring his true origins and retconning it. Then all I have been doing is explaining why this is a retcon.
Also Snowbird could transform into any animal on Earth when she was mortal, when she became immortal again it's only supposed to be from Canada again. Then with her rebirth her powers seemed to have changed under the experiments with AIM. She is still mentioned to be only able to transform into Canadian creatures plus the Great Beasts for some reason.
I never once said it did manipulate or modify him.
And you were the one who brought up emitting.Nor does gamma radiation course through him, nor is gamma radiation emitted from Walter or Sasquatch
Which is something I mentioned, in agreement.and nor did Walter's current body even go through the gamma radiation experiment making it all trivial.
They do in that regards though.Following that logic if an energy source is used to open up a doorway such as how Shaman opened up a gateway to the realm of the beasts with magic that means Vindicator, Aurora, etc. all have magical connection then? No.
They have been exposed to magic.
Compared to a normal human being in the Marvel Universe they have a stronger connection to magic, having experienced it.
Again, nowhere have I said Sasquatch is powered by Gamma.Mr.Fantastic opens gatways to the Negative zone is he powered by that? No.
Mr Fantastic is however now connected to the Negative Zone.
Which is the connection I mentioned that I really really regret doing.Gamma radiation was the key to open the door
I totally agree, and have never stated otherwise.Sasquatch, nor Tanaraq are powered by it their powered by magic as noted.
That's true, it's vague and not often referenced but it exists hence I understand it.The connection your holding on to is a vague connection and not that strong and prior to Vol.4 was not referenced of Walter being gamma radiation depended.
Nowhere did I say I liked it, merely that I understand it.
I didn't once nitpick.If you want to nitpick my word use of cameo earlier, Im doing the exact same thing to you now.
I said that "I" wouldn't call it a cameo.
Meaning me, myself and I.
My opinion.
You can call it a cameo, I call it something else. Hell, I can call it a blue bouncing banana if I want.
Nowhere did I say that you were wrong to call it a cameo.
Why is it that suddenly this place has become somewhere that I can't express my opinion?
Your initial post asked for my(/our) thoughts and when I give them to you you jump down my throat telling me I'm wrong.
Which is the only thing I've been saying from the start.
Forget emiting gamma, forget gamma powered, forget gamma beast, forget gamma origin. I never said any of those things originally.
Key words being "connection" and "I can overlook"Originally Posted by Phil
Again, I meaning me and only me alone. If I'm the only person in the world who overlooks it then so be it.
I'm not making it law or forcing it upon anyone else.
Can we just agree to disagree and leave it at that extent of a connection as you've mentioned above.
Last edited by Phil; 06-10-2012 at 08:31 PM.
I always thought Snowy could transform into Sasquatch form because 'a Sasquatch' (as clearly shown on Volume 2) is a native form to Canada.As she said in volume 1, she could transform into the Sasquatch form because it was a native-born Canadian creature...Tanaraq is not, as he and the Great Beasts are extra-dimensional beings.
Likewise, i never really thought that Tanaraq (?) made Sasquatch into its avatar, so much as twisted Langkowksi's experiment (which took place both in Canada, and near the fickle nothern lights-which may have played havoc with the experiment as well) so that rather than a pure 'gamma beast form' (and please note that every gamma beast created, they all look different) Walter was transformed into a beast more like both Tanaraq and also like the Sasquatch beast that is native to Canada.
On a side note, shouldn't there be a clear explanation as to why Tanaraq and Sasquatches look so similar?
Also, Walter may likely have, and likely did, expose himself to gamma radiation more than just the single time, as how else would he have known that he was immune to gamma radiation (which is what Fantastic Four issue 267 implies rather strongly)? It is also stated in several places that Walter WAS bombarded with massive amounts of Gamma Rays during his experiment; if he hadn't been, he would have then wondered how and why he could transform into a creature like Sas.
All in all, an interesting discussion. Once again, we reach areas where we can see that we wish past writers (such as Byrne) had been more clear on what Walter went through and how it all relates, and instead we get new writers interpreting these things in ways that fit their current storyline (and many of us don't like it). Such is the fickleness of comics, especially when your team/character is not being written by a trusted writer in an ongoing series; we have no control over what happens to the charcaters we love, and those who temporarily do have the control, have no repercussions for screwing up a character they will drop and never touch again in a few issues.
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She actually stated clearly that she could become Sasquatch because the bonding of Walt & Tanaraq happened in Canada, which is a technicality.
She even used that word.
*sigh* sad but true.
- Le Messor
"A day is a miniature eternity."
~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
One of the things i love so much about this site, is the people's passion.
So, for anybody who may be a noob here and is reading this thread, "relax, everyone here are friends"! Sometimes our passions for the character(s) get the best of us, and we just have to cut loose with some major complaining, and 'dang all who get in our way' until we have calmed down. But, at the end of the day, everyone here respects each other and our rights to dfferent opinions and such (even though all who disagree with me, are wrong- lol).
I've been known to cut loose a few times myself.
But, like the Ramones sang, "We're a happy family" !
Support Artists, Not Companies! Creator-owned comics are where the real art is at!
My new website! http://lifelessordinarywebnovel.com/home.html Follow my super-powered web-novel adventures, "Life Less Ordinary"!
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I'm not going further in the above posts any further, but since gamma was only used to open a mystical gateway (for Tanaraq to bleed through) there should be no reason a person can manipulate the gamma radiation. Also the fact he is in Snowbird's body, which never went through that experiment. Also in Vol.1 Pestilence and Talisman controlled Sasquatch saying he was a Great Beast several times. You guys are using statements that were even proven wrong later on in Vol.1 and in other series.
Also the Fantastic Four askes Walter to join as he had an expertise on radiation, which he does. Not because he bombards himself with gamma radiation. There are real world humans that are called for their knowledge of radiation to assist in a case study, doesnt mean they expose themselves to radiation it means they know the field.
How could you guys not think Tanaraq made him into his avatar? It's the exact same situation with Tundra and Snowbird's father. He looked exactly like Tundra, but wasn't really Tundra.
Last edited by -K-M-; 06-11-2012 at 06:49 PM.
I'm at a loss as to where this is coming from.
I haven't seen manipulation mentioned anywhere.
If it has been, I apologise.
Again, I agree with you.Also the fact he is in Snowbird's body, which never went through that experiment.
Proven wrong or retconned?You guys are using statements that were even proven wrong later on in Vol.1 and in other series.
That's true; it doesn't mean they do.There are real world humans that are called for their knowledge of radiation to assist in a case study, doesnt mean they expose themselves to radiation it means they know the field.
However it has been shown that Walter did.
It's since been written/retconned/whatever that the exposing himself to radiation had nothing to do with Sasquatch.
That's fine, again I never stated that it did, but it doesn't erase that fact that he still exposed himself to it. At least in his body.
Ack. Now that I had a chance to open the issue and look again, i see you are right; my bad. I know I saw/read something just recently, though, that said that Langkowski DID bombard himself with massive amounts of gamma rays. As i cannot come up with where, however, I''ll drop it and concede the point to you.Also the Fantastic Four askes Walter to join as he had an expertise on radiation, which he does. Not because he bombards himself with gamma radiation. There are real world humans that are called for their knowledge of radiation to assist in a case study, doesnt mean they expose themselves to radiation it means they know the field.
UPDATED: Machine Man issue 18: "Years ago, Dr. Walter Langkowski discovered that he was one of an infinitessimaly small percentage of the earth's population who would not have a fatal reaction to gamma radiation! Through controlled irradiation, he could achieve awesome power...Intense mental concentration triggers his gamma altered thyroid! His body hair takes on a golden hue...and thickens! His muscles bulge with incredible strength, and..Sasquatch walks the earth!"
So, after finding and reading this, I stand by my original thoughts. Any mention of Sasquatch NOT being subjected to gamma radiation, and THAT being the cause of his transformation into Sasquatch, is incorrect, and is a "retconned hatchet job" (my own words). It was not in sticking to the true character design. Walter Langkowski was supposed to be Sasquatch, because he was subjected to gamma radiation. That was how he was originally written, both by his creator, John Byrne, and by Tom DeFalco in the issue quoted above, dated December of 1980.
I haven't read the Hulk issue(s) yet, but have no problem with them mentioning something that is keeping with hpw the character was originally written and meant to be. Unfortunately, people changing written history, and then other people changing it back, happens all the time in comics.
Last edited by Flightpath07; 06-12-2012 at 03:00 PM.
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Well, K-M is right in that it was Byrne's "retconned hatchet job"; he was originally written as a gamma-powered creature (à là Hulk), but the actual cause of his transformation into Sasquatch is that he became linked to Tanaraq.
He clearly bombarded himself with gamma radiation in his origin in #11; note all his talk about "My intent: to recreate, under controlled conditions, the circumstances which produced the Hulk." and then bombards himself with gamma radiation.
However, in #23, Narya's parents tell her to "Look now upon the form and substance of one of the Last Seven, of the Great Beasts." - and it's Sasquatch. (btw, that answers another controversy we've had - are there only seven Great Beasts? There are now. Which pretty much puts me in the wrong on that one.)
Snowbird repeats his talk of wanting to duplicate the Banner Hulk experiment, then: "At first it seemed that he had been successful... But I now know it was not transformation so much as transposition. Langkowski unleashed for a fraction of a second enough physical energy to sunder the mystical barrier that holds the Great Beasts."
So here's why everybody in this argument is right:
Walt's Sasquatch origin did begin with him bombarding himself with gamma radiation.
However, that bombardment didn't create a new Hulk, but instead opened up a doorway for a mystical creature.
Gamma radiation is the origin of his getting the power, but not the source of the power.
If it hadn't been for Tanaraq, he'd likely have been another Hulk.
So, if he were still in his original body (which he isn't), the way Marvel physics work, he could still be emitting gamma radiation.
I think I left sense behind a couple of paragraphs ago.
- Le Messor
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