Marvel Cancellations?

[Jason Eberly]

I think I would be willing to pay an extra quarter for a series that guaranteed me my money back if it doesn't make it to at least issue #25. As it is, I find myself less willing to try new titles not only due to the increasing cost, but because I am tired of titles getting yanked before they even have a chance to establish a "voice".

[Le Messor]

change characters with the same amount of thought as they use to change their socks

Hey, I put a lot of thought into those socks!

I think I would be willing to pay an extra quarter for a series that guaranteed me my money back if it doesn't make it to at least issue #25. As it is, I find myself less willing to try new titles not only due to the increasing cost, but because I am tired of titles getting yanked before they even have a chance to establish a "voice".

I fully understand that... but on the other hand, that attitude is also why they don't last to 25 issues. Nobody buys them, so they don't make it.

- Le Messor
"In a civilized society, it is the duty of all citizens to obey just laws. But at the same time, it is the duty of all citizens to disobey unjust laws."
~ Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King

[Flightpath07]

LM and Jason, that seems to be a catch-22. Or a self-fulfilling prophecy. Reality is, we are so used to Marvel cancelling series (or rebooting them, or changing them to star other people, or whatever else they can cook up) before some (usually) very good writers have a chance to hook people firmly, that we don't bother to pick them up (or fear liking them and then having them cancelled).

Unfortunately in this business, rather than learn from their mistakes, companies like this just hope that we have short memories and keep rehashing the same tired ideas.

[Le Messor]

A self-filling catch?

[Jason Eberly]

How about this for a new "initiative" (Marvel's newest overused buzzword for "gimmick"):

"Marvel announces its new 'As Promised Guarantee'! We'll promise that the new title or new creative team will that we've hyped to you for months will actually last for a predetermined number of issues or we'll buy back the issues you bought because the artist you were promised that we overhyped jumped the title after two issues! Or the title that we touted as 'the new hottest thing on the planet!' is cancelled after 8 issues because sales tanked!"

"Marvel's 'As Promised Guarantee!'...we'll deliver on our promises, or we'll buy 'em back!"

Nahh...let's just have another event where everything changes and vomit out a bunch of new #1's.

(Geez...I'm starting to sound like FP!)

[Phil]

Just out of curiosity, why should Marvel do that though?
What makes you think Marvel owe you (the customer) anything?
What promises have Marvel broken?

[Jason Eberly]

Just out of curiosity, why should Marvel do that though?

I had a big long explanation typed out, but realized that there really isn't a reason they should do this, but with the readership continuing to dwindle, reboot/relaunch fatigue complaints rising (admittedly, that's just my observation),and rising prices, perhaps its time to begin thinking outside the box to ingratiate themselves back with their audience. They don't have to do this, it was just something off the top of my head.

What makes you think Marvel owe you (the customer) anything?

I never said they did. That doesn't mean they can't offer me something. Many, many companies offer coupons, discounts, rebates, or money-back guarantees to attract new or reward existing customers. And I don't include a comic shop discount because that is the comic shop giving me something for my business, not Marvel or Disney doing so.

What promises have Marvel broken?

Well, offhand, you could call the whole "Alpha Flight is now a regular series/wait, it's a mini again" as a bit of a broken promise, but whether you do or don't, I never said they broke any promises they made. This was a suggestion (again, off the top of my head) of something they could do. For example, they could have given the money-back guarantee that Terry Dodson would have lasted drawing through 12 issues of The Defenders (which was a big part of their hyping the title before it came out...that Terry would draw it, not that he would last 12 issues). When he left after issue 3 or 4 (which is what he did), I could have decided if I wanted to continue reading and keep the issues, or decided I didn't want to continue without Terry drawing and return those issues (even at say, 75% cover price or something. Again, off the top of my head).

Anyway, the point is specifically for them to use THIS idea, merely that I don't see the current gimmicks (err..."initiatives") of constant events, point one issues, or constant renumbering/relaunches/reboots doing anything to a)keep the dwindling readership or b)attract new readers.

[Le Messor]

What promises have Marvel broken?

I could see there being an argument that when they launch a new ongoing series - especially one where they hype a particular creative team (unless it's "The first story arc has Alan Grant writing, Dodgson on pencils, John Hammond on inks, and Dennis Nedry on letters!", emphasis on the 'first story arc') - there's an implicit (but not explicit) promise that the ongoing series will be ongoing with that particular team. And not cancelled after mini- or maxi-series length.
We keep touting the 25 issues number; that's fairly reasonable.

Anyway, the point is specifically for them to use THIS idea, merely that I don't see the current gimmicks (err..."initiatives") of constant events, point one issues, or constant renumbering/relaunches/reboots doing anything to a)keep the dwindling readership or b)attract new readers.

What are you talking about? That encourages plenty of dwindling readership!

- Le Messor
"If you lack sincerity in your search for the truth, you will find what you want to find, whether it is true or not."
~ Mark T. Shirey

[Flightpath07]

LOL. Careful of your broken ankles when you jump off the Marvel bandwagon, as the wagon tends to back up repeatedly as a way of running over you again and again.

[Jason Eberly]

What are you talking about? That encourages plenty of dwindling readership!

I'm not saying this is the perfect idea. I just pulled it out of the air as a way of showing that I feel Marvel (and DC, for that matter) are at a point where they should stretch a bit more in showing good faith to the consumer or as a draw to new costumers.

Again, I'm not saying my idea is the answer, but it's thinking further outside the box than "Hey, let's reboot/renumber/relaunch titles again. We haven't done that for about a year now!" or "Hey, Deadpool is kind of a popular character right now...let's put him on every team in our line!"

[Le Messor]

I'm not saying this is the perfect idea. I just pulled it out of the air as a way of showing that I feel Marvel (and DC, for that matter) are at a point where they should stretch a bit more in showing good faith to the consumer or as a draw to new costumers.

Sorry... I meant Marvel's cancellations.
I really like your idea; guarantees, somehow, of at least 25 issues would be great!

- Le Messor
"In a museum in Havana there are two skulls of Christopher Columbus… one when he was a boy and one when he was a man."
~ Mark Twain

[Phil]

I think the problem nowadays is that there are very very few artists than can do 12 issues a year.
And the only way a company could guarantee a 25 issue run is for people to pay for 25 issues up front, before the first issue is even published, and people won't/can't do that.

[Flightpath07]

people won't/can't do that.

Why do you say that? I think that at least SOME people WOULD do that!

I am tired of titles getting yanked before they even have a chance to establish a "voice"

Let's try this thought on for size. Avengers Academy. Most who read it will tell you, based on the letters page alone, that this title is considered very important to its readers, as evidenced by letters from both the teen-community and/or the gay-community. Both groups (or three groups, including the crossover between the two) consider this a flagship title for themselves.

To me, this title has not only 'established a voice' but has a loyal following clamoring for more comics like this one.

So, what does Marvel do? They cancel it.

That decision makes little sense, on too many levels. I don't know what its sales numbers were (Phil can probably find that out for me), but i would be willing to bet that there are a few series that sold less than it that are still continuing, and currently it is outselling ALL of the 'new' series that Marvel has announced it is putting out - a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Once again, i see this as Marvel not knowing their target audience at all.

[Phil]

Why do you say that? I think that at least SOME people WOULD do that!

Well, yeah, some people always would, but it'd involve shelling out $99.75 upfront for something based on just the creative team and title.AQ
And that's just for one book; I get at least 10 titles a month. There's no way on earth I could just pull $1000 out of nowhere for a non-essential luxury.

Let's try this thought on for size. Avengers Academy. Most who read it will tell you, based on the letters page alone, that this title is considered very important to its readers, as evidenced by letters from both the teen-community and/or the gay-community. Both groups (or three groups, including the crossover between the two) consider this a flagship title for themselves.

To me, this title has not only 'established a voice' but has a loyal following clamoring for more comics like this one.

So, what does Marvel do? They cancel it.

That decision makes little sense, on too many levels. I don't know what its sales numbers were (Phil can probably find that out for me), but i would be willing to bet that there are a few series that sold less than it that are still continuing, and currently it is outselling ALL of the 'new' series that Marvel has announced it is putting out - a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Once again, i see this as Marvel not knowing their target audience at all.

Let's for a second remember that all we've seen so far is that November's issue is the final issue.
There's been nothing to say we won't get an Avengers Academy Season 2 #1, or another book with the same characters, come December.

However, if there isn't, at least the book had a decent run of 3 years with the same writer.
And to me, having the academy students learn for 3 years and then graduate makes more sense than the New Mutants being students for years and years and years... The kids came to the AA, studied for 3 years and grduated. That's realism.

Looking at July's numbers:-

68

24.91

AVENGERS ACADEMY #33

$2.99

MAR

31,687

Titles selling less:-
FF - Being rebooted
Thor - Being rebooted
Dark Avengers - Just been rebranded from Thunderbolts
Ultimate X-Men
Deadpool - Being rebooted
Scarlett Spider
Winter Soldier
Age of Apocalypse
Venom - Having New Creative Team
X-Factor
Punisher - Being Rebooted
Defenders - Cancelled
Hulk - Being Rebranded
New Mutants - Cancelled
Captain America & ....
Journey Into Mystery - Having New Creative Team

So yeah, it's outselling a few titles, but it's not being singled out for cancellation/change, and it is selling poorly and dropping. It can't be said it wasn't given time to find it's voice or for the creative team to 'get' the book.

[Flightpath07]

I think the problem nowadays is that there are very very few artists than can do 12 issues a year.
And the only way a company could guarantee a 25 issue run is for people to pay for 25 issues up front, before the first issue is even published, and people won't/can't do that.

It wouldn't be that hard for people to sign up for monthly payments for 25 months. It could be done.