Ugh. Specifically, it was that part that I found offensive in Mantlo's books. Couldn't go one issue without Puck (or Bochs) thinking some variation of "why would she ever look at a useless dwarf/midget/cripple like me?" in regards to whatever woman they were pining for at the time. Brutal.Originally Posted by Crackity Jones
Yesssssssss!
But I find hardly much that hasn't offended me in Mantlo's run.
Heather=completely offensive. As a woman, she totally offends me.
Treatment of Northstar=completely offensive, at different times throughout the run.
Treatment of Aurora=completely offensive. Taking her playful flirtiness and turning her into a crazy, manipulative b!tch is also unforgivable, imo.
Treatment of Puck (and his origins!!!)=WTF OFFENSIVE.
Purple Girl? Does she go away, EVER? Is she ever going to leave this book? I find her initial appearance one of the most offensive things in this series, ever, and honestly, I will never like her. She can piss off. Forever. And take Jeffries with her. Bastids.
And MANIKIN!
They can take Manikin pissing off with them as well. Past, Present, and future selves. They can all screw off out of my books. It cannot happen fast enough.
It DOES happen, right? Eventually?
Because SEX.
Sadly, no. I wish. I dislike him, very much.
Not soon enough, in my opinion.
I grew up with a lot of guy friends and never had sex with ANY of them.
It IS possible.
What makes it impossible, if it becomes that way, is that one becomes attracted to the other. That's when things start getting icky and personal and sensitive and bad.
Maybe you feel like you know someone else who only LOOKS like me!
I was talking about The Princess Bride... don't know about you.
Brushed aside. As it should be.
I keep a list.
Sometimes I think sex is the primary religion of our society. That and science.I grew up with a lot of guy friends and never had sex with ANY of them.
It IS possible.
People keep talking like it ISN'T possible to be attracted to someone and not have sex with them.
It. Is.
~ Le Messor
"Most people are idiots," said Wimsey, gravely, "but it isn't kind to tell them so. I expect you do tell them so."
I still found it weird under Byrne's pen.
To give Mantlo some credit, I found Jeffries a better match - Heather came from a big family and it was Madison's fatherly-way with Kara that first attracted her to him.
It was just the way he then went about it that wasn't amazing. As with most things.
That's quite possible. You DO have a common look.
I don't even remember.I was talking about The Princess Bride... don't know about you.
Yes, never to be spoken of again.
Where do you pull them from for your list?I keep a list.
It is possible. Seems, though, the natural progression of attraction to one another typically ends up in sex at one time or another.
Unless the two are attracted to each other from a distance. OR they've established they're attracted to each other, but there are other barriers of sorts keeping them from being able to act on their attraction.
But, yes, friends of opposite gender is totally possible and happens all the time.
I didn't. I thought Byrne wrote it tastefully. It doesn't skeeve me so much that Puck developed feelings for Heather. He was helping her through a rough time. He kept these feelings to himself and didn't act on them. And, most importantly, he didn't down himself (except when he STARTED to during his talk with Shaman).
Never give Mantlo ANY credit. That's your mistake right there.
The Old Fan
Finally see the quote with + sign...
Unlike me, there are a lot of real die-hard Alphans who stuck through the entire run, real-time [Tawmis is one, I believe], and I agree with Phil: Mantlo's run does get better, once Alpha Flight is comprised (mainly) of his characters. My undying pet-peeve is: the Canadian government is actually going to put its super-hero defense in the hands of (1) a 13-year-old [Purple Girl]; (2) a "doctor" who used to work for Lionel Jeffries, (3) a "strongman" who is supposed to be a biophysicist but doesn't accomplish much [Sasquatch], and; (4) a leader who is delusional. Once DreamQueen is introduced, it does get better.
Wow. I would never have thought Phil would rant. Lookin' forward to that.When Crackity gets past them I'll post a big ol' rant about it
CJ, I remember when you mentioned #52 being the worst issue ever. I really meant to say that's saying something, because there are a lot of issues to choose from. #38 pretty much ties # 52 as the worst issue ever, for me.
Last edited by Garry/Al-Fan; 06-27-2014 at 02:41 PM. Reason: clarity
I was indeed one of the ones who read Alpha Flight, month to month, as it came out. I don't remember it bothering me when I was reading it as it was coming out (other than Puck/Razaar, and it didn't bug me that much other than to say, "WTF? That seems pretty out there!", and then the fate of Snowbird during the Pestilence story). I recall, by the time we got to the Llan the Sorcerer storyline, even back then, I was bothered. Because it seemed so far fetched, and dragged on for so freaking long, it felt like. (The art was also a negative, even back then for me - mostly during, as I have mentioned before, the city scene where everything goes nuts).
But over the years, as I have re-read Alpha Flight (quite a few times), perhaps because I am older and wiser, and not 14 years old whatever - I am more critical of the stories, and see Heather's change as drastic (back when she first took the costume, it did NOT bother me until she killed Snowbird - then, I hated Heather!). I picked up on a lot more things! And more and more things bothered me, as I progressed through the story during these re-readings! (I just made that a word!) Just like when I recently mentioned, I recall initially enjoying V2 when it first came out - when I tried to re-read it a few months ago, I could barely make it through the first issue!
I think I mentioned this on the CBR forums; but back in 1993, I was either naive or the whole being "gay" thing was NOT as common as it is now (or not so openly discussed in 1983/1984) - so I didn't even pick up on Aurora's hints about Northstar's sexuality way back then!
Every time I look in the mirror, I think "Strange, I've seen that face before".
Various sources. Movies. Lists that get emailed around to everybody. That kind of thing.
I have three years' worth of quote-a-day calendar on my desk, too.
Which irl is true more often than not; but in fiction, the only barrier is 'I have somebody else'.
'zackly!
Yay you!
I've said there are things I do like in it. For me, it's much less worse in this time.
If nothing else, I'd rather see him invent his own characters than destroy Byrne's.
True, but Mantlo leaves shortly after that. :P
I don't think any of us could have seen THAT coming!
~ Le Messor
Mum: I thought you said you were going to rake the yard today.
Dad: I did rake the yard. I spent all afternoo-- WHERE'S CALVIN?!
Do you guys have exact issue numbers as to when this crap gets better?
I just read #54, and it was horrible. Purple Girl needs to go away.
From #52 on has been the worst it has EVER been in AF for me. #53 kind of gets a pass, though, because Heather apologized, in her head, for all the bad things she has thought about Mac.
Her team is still awful.
SHE is still awful.
Now I'm seriously WTFing over the horrible writing. Not just because things are happening that I don't agree with. That aside, it's horrible writing.
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