Marvel sucking in the comic department.

[Tawmis]

There are multiple Supermen, with multiple histories.
There's Kid Flash from one timeline and Flash from another etc.
The Universe is neither pre-52 nor new-52; it's a mash-up of both, and without having read New-52 it's inaccessible to me.

But I've not really read _any_ DC other than Aquaman and Teen Titans/Titans (whatever they were called any given month) prior to New 52 (and even Aquaman and Teen Titans was before the new series before the - not the new 52, but where they did 52 issues - one a month - and changed everything - can't even remember what that was called). Anyway - so what I am saying is, I am only "familiar" with the New 52 stuff for DC. But they've done a great job merging New 52 and pre-New 52 to appease the fans that disliked New 52, and to me, have done a good job catching me up and explaining everything without going super into detail and over doing it.

(Not to say you're wrong, mind you, for not being able to enjoy it - merely pointing out, that I am only really familiar with the New 52, and still enjoy the pre New 52 that's been kept in Rebirth).

But just because neither you or I are reading/enjoying Marvel titles anymore; it doesn't mean that they're sucking (not your words, just tying back into the original post). Marvel are absolutely hitting the younger demographic and gaining new non-traditional comics readers. That's their aim right now.
Us 30+ year old males aren't the focus, and I'm all for that.

Other than the incessant need to "make a diverse universe" of making every hero a female and/or of a non-white ethnic background - what I don't understand is, how do you target a lower age audience (other than with books like "Deadpool" and "Squirrel Girl", which are silly books, without much in regards to story, no matter what anyone says!) I mean, it's basic super heroes. How do you make it so that one audience can't enjoy it? (Answer: Bad writing).

[Le Messor]

how do you target a lower age audience (other than with books like "Deadpool"

...
You'd let a kid read Deadpool?!?

[Tawmis]

...
You'd let a kid read Deadpool?!?

The comic? Sure.

The amount of violence shown in Deadpool may be more "bloody" - but certainly no more violent than the Saturday morning cartoons of Road Runner and Will E. Coyote and all the cuss words are "#$%!" - which is what I remember reading as a kid. And look how I turned out.

Okay, well, I am a bad example... but still...

[Phil]

I am only "familiar" with the New 52 stuff for DC.

Maybe that's my issue; I'm not.

I'm enjoying All-Star Batman though.
And looking forward to the Wildstorm relaunch.

(other than with books like "Deadpool" and "Squirrel Girl", which are silly books, without much in regards to story, no matter what anyone says!)

I'm genuinely enjoying Squirrel Girl, and I'm not the target audience.
I'm pretty sure Mik and Rob are too.
What's wrong with silly? Didn't a LOT of readers spend time complaining that books were too dark and serious and not silly and fun, in the 2000's?

I mean, it's basic super heroes. How do you make it so that one audience can't enjoy it? (Answer: Bad writing).

But then the reverse could apply; the last seventy years of comics have at times made it so female readers, black readers, homosexual readers etc... can't enjoy comics (and no, not all). A comic you have really enjoyed has a good chance of having offended or excluded someone else.

Just because you don't like a comic, or it isn't aimed at you, it doesn't make it bad writing.

...
You'd let a kid read Deadpool?!?

The comic? Sure.

The amount of violence shown in Deadpool may be more "bloody" - but certainly no more violent than the Saturday morning cartoons of Road Runner and Will E. Coyote and all the cuss words are "#$%!" - which is what I remember reading as a kid.

I personally disagree.
There are bones breaking, internal organs, red blood...

[Tawmis]

Maybe that's my issue; I'm not.
I'm enjoying All-Star Batman though.
And looking forward to the Wildstorm relaunch.

I am... optimistic, given I've enjoyed New 52 and Rebirth so much, in regards to Wildstorm relaunching. I am curious if they're going to simply disregard all previous continuity and do a clean reboot.

I'm genuinely enjoying Squirrel Girl, and I'm not the target audience.
I'm pretty sure Mik and Rob are too.
What's wrong with silly? Didn't a LOT of readers spend time complaining that books were too dark and serious and not silly and fun, in the 2000's?

Oh, don't get me wrong. There's nothing wrong with silly. I just don't care for the over the top, slap stick, silly, which I feel both Squirrel Girl and Deadpool are. But I am in the minority, as a kabillion people love Squirrel Girl and Deadpool.

When it comes to comics, I just want the basic good vs evil type story, we saw throughout the 70s and early 80's. Super hero battles, with some character development tossed in there for good measure. Continuity in a book/characters, all remaining intact. Anything other than that, I am not liable to connect it, because of the costs of comics these days (and well, because I collect every-single Rebirth title, so I already dump a lot of money into comics!)

But then the reverse could apply; the last seventy years of comics have at times made it so female readers, black readers, homosexual readers etc... can't enjoy comics (and no, not all). A comic you have really enjoyed has a good chance of having offended or excluded someone else.

But here's what I don't understand. Marvel has HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of characters already. Why make Thor a female? To appeal to the females who want a strong female character? Why didn't they simply use Valkyrie? (Just as an example). And let's be clear, I have nothing against female readers, black readers, homosexuals. As we all (probably know) - most of my favorites are strong female characters: Snowbird, Namorita, Valkyrie. And I have always loved Northstar, and made that clear. I just don't understand the need to diversify existing characters into "new" characters to take over their mantles... rather than developing the metric ton of characters, sitting there being unused. (I get it, in the end, because how many people would buy a Valkyrie book vs a Female Thor book? It's all about sales... And I think that's part of it... everything seems like a sales pitch, rather than an attempt to tell good stories... and I am sure there's good stories in these... I tried the female Thor, and lasted about three issues... But I am sure, elsewhere good stories are being told, I am just sad, that it's not with all these other characters sitting around, rather than changing up existing characters, because it hauls in sales... but Marvel is a business... and it needs to make money, it's circular and evil... #EndRamble)

Just because you don't like a comic, or it isn't aimed at you, it doesn't make it bad writing.

Well, it does make it bad writing to me. I am not speaking for the whole universe.

I personally disagree.
There are bones breaking, internal organs, red blood...

Understood. Different strokes for different folks.

[Le Messor]

I'm pretty sure Mik and Rob are too.

Confirmed! (At least, my half.)

What's wrong with silly? Didn't a LOT of readers spend time complaining that books were too dark and serious and not silly and fun, in the 2000's?

Yep! And SG is such a relief from that.

There are bones breaking, internal organs, red blood...

Not to mention the kinds of stories it tells... I'm thinking about the time he goes back in time and murders his own parents, whistling all the way.

the last seventy years of comics have at times made it so female readers, black readers, homosexual readers etc... can't enjoy comics

And Christians! Don't forget us!

When it comes to comics, I just want the basic good vs evil type story, we saw throughout the 70s and early 80's. Super hero battles, with some character development tossed in there for good measure. Continuity in a book/characters, all remaining intact.

I agree with you so much here!

~ Le Messor
"I never saw an ugly thing in my life: for let the form of an object be what it may, - light, shade, perspective will always make it beautiful."
~ John Constable

Why make Thor a female? To appeal to the females who want a strong female character?

[Tawmis]

Not to mention the kinds of stories it tells... I'm thinking about the time he goes back in time and murders his own parents, whistling all the way.

But - there's blood and violence all over comics. Is it just because the ink is colored red so YOU KNOW it's blood that makes it different? (And by you, I mean that in a "wide term" - as in a very general, those who wouldn't let their kids read Deadpool, for example).

Remember when Snowbird ripped out Sasquatch's heart? You can definitely see blood. And then there's the story with - who was it? Llan? (Ugh, how did he ever exist?!?) - Where there was an entire city of dead people; dead bodies scattered everywhere (I can't remember the details - but Silver and Auric or whatever were in it too, with Nemesis).

To be clear, not saying anyone's wrong. Just always curious about the "fine line" for comics - where violence becomes "too much." (I mean there's some that clearly, purposely, go beyond the envelope - for example Rob Liefeld's latest Bloodstrike, had a guy's "privates" ripped off... And I remember, in the original Bloodstrike, or Brigade, or it might have been in Supreme - the character Supreme was literally ripping members of Bloodstrike apart - like arms being ripped off and people torn in half... which, I think I'd still let my kid read, assuming he had a firm understanding between reality and comics lol)